What to do instead of PPAP for non ISO TS 16949 Certified Supplier?

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#21
Nanty,

It does not matter what tier supplier you are; a customer can require PPAP from their suppliers, regardless their certification status. PPAP requirements cascade down the supply chain. The customer sets the PPAP submission requirements. These must be negotiated during the contract review stage, not after, because you may already be contractually obligated.

PPAP can be a very meaningful process. But because the requirements and associated documents are often poorly understood, it can be tough.

An automotive customer can require their suppliers to be certified to ISO/TS 16949:2009. ISO 9001 may be a first step. However, if the supplier is a very small organization ( a "Mom and Pop" shop), other arrangements are possible.

Hope this helps.

Stijloor.

P.S. Een voormalig Brabander...
 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#22
We are a tier 3 supplier and we hold ISO 9001:2008. I noticed that customers try to push us to do PPAP and other requirements which are mentioned in TS2. One customer - the largest in our industry - said that if the raw material - what we supply - is of major importance, the demand for TS2 is higher.
Q1 - Can our customer demand for TS2?
Q2 - Is there indeed a trend to have tier 3 partners upscale their qualifications?

As mentioned by tomvehoski it is certainly also about a lot of useless paperwork, not used in other markets and thereby increasing costs, which is also not in the interest of the automotive industrie.
Q3 - Should we anticipate on a change?

I assume that this customer of yours is ISO TS certified and supply its products to automotive market.
If so, to respond to Q1 of your post, this customer would like to carry your company to be compliant to ISO TS ( not certified). This is a requirement of ISO TS ( clause 7.4.1.2) related to development of the Supplier QMS vs ISO TS.
For Q2 , I think that this could be a goal of the automotive supplier to have a a good supplier chain with focus on prevention defect, effective and efficient processes as well.
Hope this helps:bigwave:
 
N

Nanty

#23
Stijloor (hoe kom je aan de naam??),

I do understand what a customer demand is and of course a customer can ask for TS16949 though we could not conform. As a raw material supplier (Check www.lapinusfibres.com and www.rockwool.com), the process of producing MMMF (man-made mineral fibres) is very very vast and it would be nearly impossible to get to to ISO16949 level without spending fortunes. And that is what I want to anticipate on. Will it be necessary in the future to go that route....
We have only been contracted on ISO9000. We would at this moment certainly not accept any contract mentioning ISO16949.

regards, Nanty

PS: nog altijd gewoon...Limburgse.
 
N

Nanty

#24
I assume that this customer of yours is ISO TS certified and supply its products to automotive market.
If so, to respond to Q1 of your post, this customer would like to carry your company to be compliant to ISO TS ( not certified). This is a requirement of ISO TS ( clause 7.4.1.2) related to development of the Supplier QMS vs ISO TS.
For Q2 , I think that this could be a goal of the automotive supplier to have a a good supplier chain with focus on prevention defect, effective and efficient processes as well.
Hope this helps:bigwave:
thanks qusys, I will check the content of the information and see how I might be able to use it.

Thanks all, for the information!
 
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