What to do when Auditee refuses to sign Audit Report

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#21
I can't see what the issue is here. In the 14 years I have been auditing, we have never required a signature from an auditee - just change your auditing SOP.

I think your main problem is in your audit planning.

Plan an audit that means something so that senior management see the value in it, then plan the close out so that the persons with the authority are present to agree NCs, RnRs and time lines. They will attend or send a deputy if they see the value in the audit.

Chrissie
Yeah, Chrissie, that would be an ideal solution, BUT I don't know of many internal auditors who have the power to unilaterally change the SOP. They have to write an observation and hope the management review of the audit report finds merit in the observation and takes the suggested action.

Unfortunately, in the real world, what's more likely to happen is the internal auditor who writes such an observation will be scolded for "interfering in things outside the scope of his duties."

Dysfunctional organizations are dysfunctional precisely because the leader sets the tone and instills enough fear in the staff that no one dares question the "emperor's new clothes."
 
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SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#22
I cannot see where the original poster ever came back to answer any of the questions posted? have I missed something? :confused:

We can talk all day about what should or shouldn't happen, dysfunctionality, and actual vs. perceived requirements, but if the OP doesn't let us know what sort of audit he was conducting, what his role (full role, not just that he did an audit but is he in some role of authority when it comes to the QMS) we really aren't settling anything for anyone.:2cents:
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#23
I cannot see where the original poster ever came back to answer any of the questions posted? have I missed something? :confused:

We can talk all day about what should or shouldn't happen, dysfunctionality, and actual vs. perceived requirements, but if the OP doesn't let us know what sort of audit he was conducting, what his role (full role, not just that he did an audit but is he in some role of authority when it comes to the QMS) we really aren't settling anything for anyone.:2cents:
Last time OP visited this thread was after post 14, but before post 15. He has NOT commented further. (or she? - not sure of gender)
 
Q

qualityboi

#24
All agreed, I have never had an auditee sign any of my audit reports, get rid of this requirement in your audit process. If you have a closing meeting with an attendance roster or even a read receipt of an email of your audit report is evidence enough that the auditee has knowledge of the final results of the audit, assuming that is what you were going for with the signature requirement. Just curious, what were you (or your company) going for with that requirement?
 
K

Ka Pilo

#25
Re: what to do when auditee refuse to sign audit report

In my opinion, I think there are two options:

1. He/She could refuse to sign and you can make a note saying "refused to sign" just as sometimes I have had to put that comment on any actions taken on an employee, that refuses to sign.

2. She/He could make a statement in the signature block like "by direction/authority for."

Note: Apparently, the Management Representative (if that is part of their title) doesn't have the necessary authority in regards to the Management System. I would then identify it as a minor, since the person doesn't have the authority per the standard.

But, this is only my opinion and someone else may/may not agree with me.
Slightly :topic:
How about a scenario that an auditee refused to be audited? How do you deal with that?
 
Q

qualityboi

#27
Easy one for me...write the non-conformance for management commitment and escalate to the management review. If it stalls there, you show it to your external registrar who will put the cert on probation until the commitment issue is resolved.
 
#29
Re: what to do when auditee refuse to sign audit report

I would proceed with the audit unless the majority refused to be audited fairly. How about you?
Kinda tough if the boss says - "Keep out and don't talk to my people!" isn't it?

Since this is another pretty hypothetical question - so there's no "real answer", the fact is that a refusal to be audited says a lot more about the planning and preparation by the audit manager, than what the auditor 'could do' if faced with this situation...
 
K

Ka Pilo

#30
Re: what to do when auditee refuse to sign audit report

Kinda tough if the boss says - "Keep out and don't talk to my people!" isn't it?
Yes, it is.
Since this is another pretty hypothetical question - so there's no "real answer", the fact is that a refusal to be audited says a lot more about the planning and preparation by the audit manager, than what the auditor 'could do' if faced with this situation...
I definitely agree.
 
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