What's the difference: AIAG-PPAP's "Significant Production Run" and "Run @ Rate"?

E

Einsiferum

#1
Hello again. As I mentioned before we are rather new to all AIAG terminology and methodology. And really appreciate all the help members of the forum have provided, it makes it a whole lot easier.

This time, we know from the AIAG'S APQP and PPAP manuals about the "Significan Production Run" that needs to be done before PPAP in order to draw all data and samples for PPAP.
However, we keep hearing about Run @ Rate, and from what hear and read in what documents we have been provided about it, it sounds quite a lot like the "Significant Production Run".

So, our questions is: What's the difference if any, between "Significant Production Run" and Run @ Rate?

anf whether different or not, why is [email protected] not in AIAG's documents?

Also, seems Run @ Rate is particular of some customers, is this true? We've only heard/read about it from GM, FORD and VOLVO.

We've checked previous threads about Run @ Rate, but didn't quite find teh answer we are looking for exactly.

Thank you very much to all.
 
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Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#2
A run at rate is a production run to demonstrate that the production line can produce parts at the quoted production rate and it can meet customer demand. Some OEMs also require a "Capacity Verification" for cases where the production line runs more than one part and each part has it own demand.

I think you are correct that run at rate is not in APQP or PPAP manuals.

I believe that the original term "run at rate" is a Ford term: http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/docs/FordspecTS2ndAugust2009.pdf
 
E

Einsiferum

#5
Thank you for your replies.

Not quite sure yet, yhough.

We have read Ford's "Global Phased PPAP Requirements Handbook (Edition 2.0)" and AIAG's APQP and PPAP manuals(4th Editions), and thus far we have come to the understanidng is that Ford's "Run @ Rate" is AIAG's "Significant Production Run".
The reason being that:
1)"Run @ Rate" is Phase 0 of Ford's PPAP and
2) thus PPAP parts are taken from "Run @ Rate"

which matches AIAG's "Significant Production Run"
1) It is the step prior to PPAP
2) PPAP parts are taken from this "Significant Production Run".

We were wondering if anybody with longer experience tha uns and deeper knowledge of APQP, PPAP (and maybe even FORD's ways) might help us know if our interpretation is right or not.

Thanks a lot!
 
S

sky66666

#6
pls search "GP-9", there is a time line for your reference.
Significant Production Run (production conduction in accord with mass production)-->PPAP aproved-->Run @ Rate-->MP
 
D

DaiLe

#7
Let me get clear for you. The answer directly to your question is there is NO DIFFERENCE, or THEY ARE THE SAME MEANING?
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Let me get clear for you. The answer directly to your question is there is NO DIFFERENCE, or THEY ARE THE SAME MEANING?
Based on my past experience, the 'significant production run' and the 'run at rate' are NOT the same thing.

As was pointed out earlier, the [email protected] is intended to demonstrate the ability of the process to produce conforming parts at the contracted rate, and to determine (in the case of shared capacity) that there is sufficient capacity to meet the contracted needs.

The significant production run, on the other hand, does NOT have to be run at the production rate - however it does require that you use the intended process and equipment. Parts from the SPR are the ones that you should be using for your PPAP submission (including statistical studies, if any are required). The SPR demonstrates that the planned process is capable (hopefully) of consistently producing conforming parts, but does NOT take into account the required rate of production.
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
Trusted Information Resource
#9
FCA/Chrysler sometimes refers to it as Run At Rate or PDR Production Demonstration Run generally = 300 pieces or 2 hours production run whichever is greater.....or a general exception (depending on conditions) is a rate as mutually agreed to by supplier and customer.

OEMs are sensitive to Tier 1/2/3s that grease the skids or stack the deck with personnel or devices not part of the established/normal production process. Generally they are forbidden form using these "methods" of meeting the PDR/Run at rate requirements.

Ciao
optomist1
 
Last edited:

Englishman Abroad

Involved In Discussions
#10
All

Significant Production Run is the AIAG term for a minimum 300 part run on the final tooling and process inorder to produce parts for the PPAP dimensional and testing requirement.

Run at Rate was created (I think by Ford) in order to validate that the process can meet the desired production volume over a sustained time (depending on the part / process) this can be a shift or day or 2 days. This is intended to evaluate the OEE of the process and verify that the capacity that is required can actually be produced.

Normally Run at Rate happens after PPAP, but if you have an established process, and have customer agreement, (in my experience) it is possible to negotiate with the Customer to ignore the Significant production run and go straight to Run at Rate and use the Run at rate parts for PPAP dimensional and functional testing.

However in this case you have the risk that you have a day's stock that does not pass PPAP & testing...
 
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