What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QMS)?

[Richard Pike]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

Good explanation. It was a poor choice of words in the original, I think. They could have just said "compare." If insistent upon using "map," the meaning would have been clearer if they has said "map...against" rather than "map...with."

A map can be construed as a tangible thing or an action.

The word "compare" is not tangible, perhaps "Provide a comparison" would have been correct but "map" is so much shorter. Its one of the few occasions that ISO actually "reduces" its literary diarrhea.

So personally, I map my process as an action and then convert that action into a tangible thing, i.e a map!

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

A map can be construed as a tangible thing or an action.

The word "compare" is not tangible, perhaps "Provide a comparison" would have been correct but "map" is so much shorter. Its one of the few occasions that ISO actually "reduces" its literary diarrhea.

So personally, I map my process as an action and then convert that action into a tangible thing, i.e a map!

It's helpful to remember that many people who use the standard may not be aware of the nuances of English, and might understand "map" only in its noun sense. "Compare" removes the verb/noun confusion of "map," which confusion is evident in the OP's question.

 

[somashekar]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

A map can be construed as a tangible thing or an action.

The word "compare" is not tangible, perhaps "Provide a comparison" would have been correct but "map" is so much shorter. Its one of the few occasions that ISO actually "reduces" its literary diarrhea.

So personally, I map my process as an action and then convert that action into a tangible thing, i.e a map!

I agree with you Richard Sir.
As i find out now, the word " Map out " as a Phrasal verb means ... " if you map out something that you are intending to do, you work out in detail how you will do it "
No poor choice in the standard, each word has got all the thought it deserves before getting into the print.

 

[Richard Pike]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

It's helpful to remember that many people who use the standard may not be aware of the nuances of English, and might understand "map" only in its noun sense. "Compare" removes the verb/noun confusion of "map," which confusion is evident in the OP's question.

I bow to your experience on the forum.

However beg to differ - Compare is not the same as map - by a long way! and if we start second guessing the various committees that spend lots of their time and our money redefining definitions we are going to be in even deeper trouble with our Std,s

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

I bow to your experience on the forum.

No bowing, please. Send money.

However beg to differ - Compare is not the same as map - by a long way! and if we start second guessing the various committees that spend lots of their time and our money redefining definitions we are going to be in even deeper trouble with our Std,s

This thread, and a whole lot more like it, exist because people don't understand the language of the standard. In those cases it's left to us to interpret. I hope you don't think that all of the language in ISO 9001 is perfectly apt just because a lot of people worked on it. In any event, if we accept your definition of the verb "to map" in this case, the result of the mapping will be a comparison of the present state against a hoped-for future state, so why not just use "compare" to begin with?

 

[Richard Pike]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

No bowing, please. Send money.


This thread, and a whole lot more like it, exist because people don't understand the language of the standard. In those cases it's left to us to interpret. I hope you don't think that all of the language in ISO 9001 is perfectly apt just because a lot of people worked on it. In any event, if we accept your definition of the verb "to map" in this case, the result of the mapping will be a comparison of the present state against a hoped-for future state, so why not just use "compare" to begin with?

Nope, its not perfectly apt because a lot of people worked on it! but it is better than a shoot from the hip interpretation. If everybody did that - especially those without the benefit of the length of your .. experience .. can you imagine the chaos?

I am afraid I fail to understand what "comparison from current to hoped for future state" has to do with this issue?

If you read the originators positive response ??? ... it is FAR better to attempt to explain the original meaning than to invent a new one.

Here we are - two Professionals - with a lot of combined experience --disagreeing over word context - what chance does the less experienced have - other than to follow the Standards and the Guidelines?

 

[Richard Pike]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

No bowing, please. Send money.

OK here is my two cents worth !

This thread, and a whole lot more like it, exist because people don't understand the language of the standard. In those cases it's left to us to interpret.

If "by us" you mean "by you" then that is of course a discussion killer!

I am sure however you really did mean "by us" .

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

If "by us" you mean "by you" then that is of course a discussion killer!

I am sure however you really did mean "by us" .

It's best not to insert things into quotations that are not part of what someone actually wrote.

In view of what the OP was asking about, namely:

• Identify ISO 9001 requirements
• Map these requirements with your implemented QMS, where applicable
• Make a gap analysis: identify where in your existing system the requirements are fulfilled, and where they are not
• Include in your QMS processes the activities, procedures and controls needed

I would go so far as to say the the second bullet point , which contains the bone of contention, is entirely superfluous. If it were eliminated altogether, nothing meaningful would be lost.

 

[Richard Pike]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

It's best not to insert things into quotations that are not part of what someone actually wrote.

In view of what the OP was asking about, namely:

• Identify ISO 9001 requirements
• Map these requirements with your implemented QMS, where applicable
• Make a gap analysis: identify where in your existing system the requirements are fulfilled, and where they are not
• Include in your QMS processes the activities, procedures and controls needed

I would go so far as to say the the second bullet point , which contains the bone of contention, is entirely superfluous. If it were eliminated altogether, nothing meaningful would be lost.

OK I guess I am unsuccessful in making my point, but I understand and acknowledge yours.

Myself and my associates use "mapping" extensively. We find it a valuable tool which assists in establishing what out clients do and how they interact with the Requirements. (of their Policies, their customers, legislation and any applicable standards). From there we find the Gap Analysis & subsequent proposals, runs quicker, more accurately and more freely.

There is no possibility of us using MAP = Compare, as in our methodology they are far apart with very different meanings and very different outcomes.

We find such mapping to be highly effective and helps free us from a rigid & prescribed approach used by so many (especially quality) consultants; It helps us to be more innovative in the development and application of Management Systems. (less boring and therefore more motivational and effective for our Clients)

It is our contention that it is in this context that the ISO committees meant the word to be used. (yes! we give credit where perhaps it may not be due)

 

[JaneB]

Re: What's the meaning of word "map" (Map these requirements with your implemented QM

Richard,
I don't understand your quibbling over this, other than perhaps as a way of bringing in what reads like considerable self-promotion; not useful or helpful to the discussion, let alone the original poster.

There is no possibility of us using MAP = Compare, as in our methodology they are far apart with very different meanings and very different outcomes.

Uh huh. Really? I doubt that the outcomes are very different.

By the way (and only because we're discussing language) 'myself and my partners' is ungrammatical.