When do we need to be A2LA/ISO 17025 certified?

ozziegood

Registered Visitor
#1
I work for a small automotive/other products company. One of our "other" customers requested that we obtain a CMM to be able to measure parts ourselves. I am wondering if we need to be certified for anything before we are "legal" to this. Also if we are going to spend the money to do this with one customer we would like to do this with more. Any information would help. We are just wondering at what point do we need to be certified. Thanks.

Marie
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
I work for a small automotive/other products company. One of our "other" customers requested that we obtain a CMM to be able to measure parts ourselves. I am wondering if we need to be certified for anything before we are "legal" to this. Also if we are going to spend the money to do this with one customer we would like to do this with more. Any information would help. We are just wondering at what point do we need to be certified. Thanks.

Marie
You don't need accreditation to 17025 unless a customer specifically requires it, and it's doubtful that a customer would require it just for using a CMM.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
On my Automotive customer's PPAP requirements it states all dimensionals must be performed by an A2LA lab.
They want dimensional verification done by a lab accredited to 17025, and the accreditation must be done by A2LA? I think this is a rather unusual requirement, but if your company agreed to it, your choices are limited:
  • You can have your internal inspection "lab" accredited;
  • You can contract with an accredited third party;
  • You can ask the customer to reconsider the requirement;
  • You can give up the business from that customer.
 
#5
On my Automotive customer's PPAP requirements it states all dimensionals must be performed by an A2LA lab.
Hey Ozzie - how's it over there in Holland? It's snowing in our bit of MI!!

Well, the paradox is that some people think A2LA and ISO/IEC 17025 accreditation are synonymous. It's like all vacuums being called 'Hoover' or copying machines a 'Xerox'. There are a number of accreditation bodies as well as A2LA, like LAB, NVLAP, etc.

Your customer probably knows a little bit (more than many), and sure you should have your PPAP checks done by a layout place that has an effective management system. However, accreditation isn't absolutely required. There is a list of companies who have been deemed to have a 17025 compliant system, by the 'Big 3'.

I'm sure that in the Grand Rapids/Holland area there are layout shops, certainly there are over here in the SE corner (that's near Detroit!!) who would be qualified to do the work and comply already (or are accredited) to ISO/IEC 17025.

Look at the AIAG or IATF website for the list. I think that's were it's published. Perhaps some kind person who knows better might post a link here.

Andy
 

ozziegood

Registered Visitor
#6
Hi Andy! It's snowing a little here. I'm right near the lake shore so we get the icky stuff!

Here is the wording on my customer's PPAP checklist under the "Qualified Lab Documentation",

"Labs shall be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025 or national equivalent (A2LA, NVAP and ICBO ES)"

Actually it does not say in the "Dimensional Results" section that the diemnsionals need to be performed by an Accredited lab.

Now I'm not sure if they really want the dimensionals done by the ISO 17025 lab or not. I'll have to ask them.

Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the replies!

Marie
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Here is the wording on my customer's PPAP checklist under the "Qualified Lab Documentation",

"Labs shall be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025 or national equivalent (A2LA, NVAP and ICBO ES)"
One point here.....you may want to let the customer know that ICBO ES does not exist under that name, and has not for about 3 years.....the name now for the accrediting body is IAS, or if you prefer the International Accreditation Service.

A suggestion that you may present is to reword the requirement to read:

"Labs shall be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025 by an ILAC signatory accrediting body."

Hope this helps.

Hershal
 
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