When do you say that you are ready for Third-Party Certification?

[Onayt]

I would advise against taking this kind of tone:

To adopt the attitude that you are 'not going to stand for' whatever, is inappropriate, except perhaps for the owner/MD. In anyone else, if you want to adopt that kind of 'do it my way or the highway' tone, you're highly unlikely to get people on side - indeed, y ou're more likely to offend them.

I'd advise the consultative approach: 'WE have a problem, this is what the problem is, now how can WE address this' approach. It is far more effective in my experience than the high-handed 'I won't stand for this' one.

Good point Ms. Jane. However, I have tried this approach in the past and was not successful in doing so. But i'll consider this approach once more, maybe becoming too harsh may not work...i'll just have to improve on being "diplomatic" with the bosses - but i have to be assertive a little bit also. Many thanks

 

[JaneB]

Good point Ms. Jane. However, I have tried this approach in the past and was not successful in doing so. But i'll consider this approach once more, maybe becoming too harsh may not work...i'll just have to improve on being "diplomatic" with the bosses - but i have to be assertive a little bit also. Many thanks

Assertive, firm, yes.

And while telling people 'we're in a bad position right now' may not be what they want to hear, they need to. (There's no good to be gained by being soft, if the outcome will be a bad one.)

My only issue was with the dictatorial-type of tone implied by 'I am not going to stand for this'. That way lies disaster.

 

[Drew G]

Dear Jane, Onayt,

Jane - I was not suggesting an attitude of "my way or the highway" - we all know that is bad and can isolate yourself from the help of others, unless you are top management like you mentioned. I am suggesting that Onayt be more persuasive by one, setting a certain atmosphere that is conducive to people supporting him. Here are ways to do this. When someone sees or hears someone that has a lot of passion and vigor in what they are doing, they will naturally aspire to understand them, and take an interest in their activities at the least. Also remember that people naturally want to help - use that to your advantage! Helping makes people feel good. I have two degrees and one of them being Psychology, so that helps me a lot. Almost forgot something very important: being a good listener will help you in ways that will amaze you. Soon you will see everything going your way!

I'm not always right and I'll be the first to admit that. The overall theme here is that you are positive, optimistic, passionate, you are a very good listener, and that you ask for help from your management team.

Napoleon Bonaparte said "Authority is not delegated, it's assumed". The president of the company I work for told me this is the way I should think and act because it is effective and wise, and I use it all the time. You cannot wait for authority to be given sometimes. Use this quote to empower yourself, but do not get power mad or power hungry - that is very bad and not attractive. Take this quote and use it with a good attitude, good verbal (5% of persuasion) and non-verbal (95% of persuasion) communication skills, and good organizational skills and you will likely get them on board.

Thanks!

G

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Dear Onayt,

My suggestion for a wake up call is to begin the process by sending a meeting invite, sending any supporting documents for the meeting, and then having the meeting. Beyond what I recommend procedurally, I definitely recommend that you never once falter in your speech or discussion about the seriousness of the QMS, and the importance of EVERYONE complying with it, or else your company is not engaging in best management practices. You should also not be robotic or create sterile environments during your meetings - while you want to maintain a very serious and focused tone, you also want to be light, jovial, and humurous if you can, and when appropriate. People don't like robotic meetings, and if that is what they are getting then that should be addressed by you immediately. Your biggest asset in getting everyone on board again at a "wake up call" meeting is your drive, and whether or not your VP's can see your (almost fanatical) passion towards your QMS. Also, discuss with top management (this includes VP's) in a very serious way that you are not going to stand for inconsistencies, non-compliances, and the company cannot cut corners for the sake of quality, ever! Someone famous once said (I'm paraphrasing here): when in tough times, the last thing you want to do is sacrifice your principles. Your company needs to stay on course, and they are likely relying on you for total guidance. You may relay this to them as if this is your mission and you will not be deterred, or made to perform at a lower level because of anyone else in the company. If it is company principle to do their best to maintain and continuously improve the QMS (as opposed to a QMS for the sake of marketing purposes), then point out that there is never a good time to cut corners in quality.

Sorry for the long post and if I said anything you already know!

G

I agree, and would add that some well selected metrics will help make the argument that a company is or is not ready for certification. Make good (internal) metrics, and use them to understand how a company is performing.

 

[JaneB]

Thanks for your clarifying, Drew, and I think you gave lots of excellent advice. I definitely agree that the overall theme with the best chance of being effective is

positive, optimistic, passionate, you are a very good listener, and that you ask for help from your management team.

I also agree with the point of responsibility being assumed, not given. Too many people wait around for someone to give it to them, instead of being responsible themselves.

But I did and do take issue with one set of particular words which I already quoted (my bold added):

discuss with top management (this includes VP's) in a very serious way that you are not going to stand for inconsistencies, non-compliances, and the company cannot cut corners for the sake of quality, ever!

To use the phrase (I am) 'not going to stand for something' is very strong language, particularly given what Onayt has written about his position, and would be unlikely to have a beneficial effect in my opinion. That's all.

Seeking help and bringing people together to work on something, does not, in my experience, work if prefaced by an I/me-type statement along the lines of I am not going to stand for XYZ!

Apart from anything else, this is a problem that needs to be addressed by many people, not dictated by one person.

 

[JaneB]

I agree, and would add that some well selected metrics will help make the argument that a company is or is not ready for certification. Make good (internal) metrics, and use them to understand how a company is performing.

Excellent point, Helmut. The more one focusses on the data, the better. If the evidence isn't there to indicate the company is ready, or if it suggests otherwise, this is an excellent way of taking any potential personality issues out. Not to mention making decisions based on facts.

 

[Drew G]

Dear Jane,

Thanks for the positive reply. You are right - "discuss with top management (this includes VP's) in a very serious way that you are not going to stand for inconsistencies, non-compliances, and the company cannot cut corners for the sake of quality, ever!" the words in bold wouldn't really help you, other than to let people know that you are taking a harsh stance. People also want to know that you are flexible to an extend. While it is paramount to be consistent in your QMS, it is equally paramount to your work livelihood and ability to lead and organize a team that you are flexible and not dictator-like. Sometimes acting dictator-like can actually make people think you are a joke, the complete opposite!

Thanks for refining that Jane.

Onayt - how are things, what did you do last week?

Thanks,
G

 

[JaneB]

Thanks for listening and responding positively, Drew. Gives us both a chance to get clear about what we meant, and you have many excellent things to say. I look forward to your participation.

 

[Onayt]

Dear Jane,

Thanks for the positive reply. You are right - "discuss with top management (this includes VP's) in a very serious way that you are not going to stand for inconsistencies, non-compliances, and the company cannot cut corners for the sake of quality, ever!" the words in bold wouldn't really help you, other than to let people know that you are taking a harsh stance. People also want to know that you are flexible to an extend. While it is paramount to be consistent in your QMS, it is equally paramount to your work livelihood and ability to lead and organize a team that you are flexible and not dictator-like. Sometimes acting dictator-like can actually make people think you are a joke, the complete opposite!

Thanks for refining that Jane.

Onayt - how are things, what did you do last week?

Thanks,
G

Hi drew,

I was out last week that's why I wasn't able to make replies..anyway, it feels great knowing that there are people like you (and Ms. Jane) who are open to give advice...I appreciate that so much. Thanks also to helmut.

Right now, I'm busy preparing procedures - as usual. People here lacks the time doing their own procedures and forms...I'm waiting for a "go-signal" from the management on the schedule of our Management Committee meeting. I have prepared some data to use for the "wake-up call" meeting.

Many thanks to all!!! I have to speak with our CB regarding the schedule of our Stage 1 audit...but I'm still waiting for the final schedule - i hope this time its really the final one...we are quite accustomed with "moving target" here - its in our system which is very hard to deal with - people just can't commit...

Cheers

 

[jsn80]

Right now, I'm busy preparing procedures - as usual. People here lacks the time doing their own procedures and forms...

Man I feel you on that one. I've written/edited more documents than I ever imagined I could have. It amazes me how many people from a professional environment get sloppy with documentation...

I'm waiting for a "go-signal" from the management on the schedule of our Management Committee meeting. I have prepared some data to use for the "wake-up call" meeting.

I gave a presentation to my executive committee outlining each department in the company. Each group was given a % of readiness (formed from my opinion) and then I gave a short list stating what they have complete and what needs more attention. That helped me out quite a bit.