When do you say that you are ready for Third-Party Certification?

[Helmut Jilling]

Here's my view: No I don't need to check to see if your underwear is dirty. I could just take your word for it. But if Jim, James, and Tonya ALSO tell me your underwear isn't dirty, then now I have more confidence that you are not full of poop, nor is your underwear.

I guess what I'm getting at, is the point of a certification is to provide your customers with faith in your system so that they DON'T have to come audit your company. Most companies are not seeking new vendors and without a cert, especially in the aerospace industry where you frequently deal with military contracts, you will never get your foot in the door...

A good auditor does much more than "check whether your underwear is dirty..." An outdated way of looking at certification benefits.

Good auditors will often point out areas that are not as good as they can be. A good auditor has seen hundreds of examples of systems. That is a degree of perspective few people get, and one I value very much. How many people do you regularly talk with who have seen hundreds of systems intimately? It is a unique opportunity to cross-pollinate and improve paradigms. The standard gives good concepts, ISO 9004 adds a lot more great stuff (everyone should read it!), and a good auditor adds icing on the cake. Of course, he/she also has to watch they don't cross over into consulting. But, money well spent if done right.

 

[John Broomfield]

Hi guys!

I have three concerns that I hope you will be able to help me on with, as follows:

a. As the title of my thread says, when do you say that a company is really ready for the Third-Party audit?

b. What does the 3-month minimum implementation of the system means? 3-months of generated records?

c. Given a scenario as follows: Our company already have the Quality Manual and Mandatory Procedures in place (approved) last March...then we had our internal audit last April...last May we had our Management Review...then we just had our Operational Procedures approved 2 weeks ago (June)...our OTPs were also approved 2 weeks ago also...sounds funny? It is...with these, can you say that our company is ready for audit this July or even August? Please advice.

Thanks

Onayt,

When your competent internal auditors provide you with evidence that your system conforms, your system is ready for the certification audit and not before.

Do not ask the third party auditor if your system conforms. Tell them it does and that you have the evidence that it does.

Focus on evidence instead of time periods.

Ensure that you establish and maintain the confidence of your third party auditor in your system's conformity and effectiveness. Do not start the relationship with doubt by asking if it conforms.

John

 

[JaneB]

A good auditor does much more than "check whether your underwear is dirty..." An outdated way of looking at certification benefits.

Yes, there are much better analogies.

 

[MajorBVNaik]

A stage 1 audit has clear limitations and is not designed to assess implementation aspects.
Many organizations suffer from wishful thinking when developing their command media, procedures, documents, process instructions and "design" processes that are not achievable at that stage. So, document-wise, the system is in great shape. But very little is actually implemented.

A very common failure mode, during stage 2 audits, is the scenario where the actual work/practice is not in line with the supporting documentation. It happens all the time.

Stage 1 audit success need not necessary guarantee success during stage 2 audit. Stage 1 audit focuses on documentation review (adequacy of QM), checks that internal audit & management review has been conducted. It is also meant for ensuring that planning for stage 2 audit meets requirements

 

[JaneB]

Stage 1 audit focuses on documentation review (adequacy of QM), checks that internal audit & management review has been conducted. It is also meant for ensuring that planning for stage 2 audit meets requirements

Not fully correct. You're paraphrasing in your own words and giving an opinion, rather than accurately stating what the certifying bodies are actually required to do in the Stage 1.

For example, it is not correct to say this:

checks that internal audit & management review has been conducted.

Nope, not true. (If you're going to single out those 2 things, why not single out every other requirement as well and say that those have to be checked as well? Which they don't at Stage 1)

You've also left out some things.

 

[Onayt]

Hey guys, I'm back

Guess what? Our company is certified at last!!! thanks to your advices..it really helped me a lot...i was assigned as the Management Representative barely a month prior to the Stage 2 Audit...finally, my sleepness nights paid off!!!

=)

 

[Onayt]

Hi Jane,

Im happy to inform you that we are already certified as of Sep 23, 2010...thank God it all paid off!!!

Thanks for the advices!

Regards,
Onayt

 

[tbsiva]

Hi guys!

I have three concerns that I hope you will be able to help me on with, as follows:

a. As the title of my thread says, when do you say that a company is really ready for the Third-Party audit?

b. What does the 3-month minimum implementation of the system means? 3-months of generated records?

c. Given a scenario as follows: Our company already have the Quality Manual and Mandatory Procedures in place (approved) last March...then we had our internal audit last April...last May we had our Management Review...then we just had our Operational Procedures approved 2 weeks ago (June)...our OTPs were also approved 2 weeks ago also...sounds funny? It is...with these, can you say that our company is ready for audit this July or even August? Please advice.

Thanks

Simple answer is yes. I don't find that something is missing to go for the audit. But apart from completing these activities, check the real system effectiveness before you go for the audit.

Thanks

 

[JaneB]

Hi Jane,

Im happy to inform you that we are already certified as of Sep 23, 2010...thank God it all paid off!!!

Thanks for the advices!

Regards,
Onayt

Thrilled to hear it. Great stuff - well done you and all who helped. ANd thanks a lot for letting us know.

 

[Drew G]

Hey guys, I'm back

Guess what? Our company is certified at last!!! thanks to your advices..it really helped me a lot...i was assigned as the Management Representative barely a month prior to the Stage 2 Audit...finally, my sleepness nights paid off!!!

=)

Congratulations Onayt!


Keep us posted.


Drew