When is FAI required? AS9100 8.5.1.3 and 8.4.3 requirements

MVladimir

Involved - Posts
#1
Hello 9100 experts,
According cl. 8.5.1.3 Production Process Verification
"The organization shall use a representative item from the first production run of a new part or assembly to verify that the production processes, production documentation, and tooling are able to produce parts and assemblies that meet requirements".
Question:
Shall organization perform FAI for every new part as well as assembly and sub-assembly (if manufactured)? Or it is up to organization to decide which parts, assemblies and sub-assemblies could be considered for FAI?

According cl. 8.4.3 Information for External Providers
The organization shall communicate to external providers its requirements for:
i. test, inspection, and verification (including production process verification);
The same question:
In which cases External Providers shall carry out the FAI and what will be the FAI subject (Parts? Assemblies? Sub-assemblies?)

Any input / opinion will be appreciate!
 
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indubioush

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
It is up to the engineer to determine what dimensions are inspectable, what dimensions are for FAI only, and what dimensions are for reference (meaning they probably will never be measured). Inspectable dimensions need to be inspected for each batch produced. FAI dimensions are inspected on the initials run. The FAI dimensions along with the inspectable dimensions answer the question: Did we make the part correctly?

Let's say your part looks great. Then a few months later, you want to change a few dimensions. The engineer updates the drawing, and may make changes to the designation of certain dimensions (inspectable, FAI, Ref). You would then repeat the FAI on the initial run of the new revision parts. If it looks good, the next back you make, you will only inspect the inspectable dimensions.

Does that help?
 

MVladimir

Involved - Posts
#4
Thanks indubioush, well explained!
No problems with parts.
I would like to understand - when assembly and sub-assembly should be subject for FAI? What is criteria for FAI in this case? For example - for complicated product such as Helicopter / Gas turbine engine etc.
 

Al Rosen

Holed-up in a Hotel in South Florida
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Hello 9100 experts,
According cl. 8.5.1.3 Production Process Verification
"The organization shall use a representative item from the first production run of a new part or assembly to verify that the production processes, production documentation, and tooling are able to produce parts and assemblies that meet requirements".
Question:
Shall organization perform FAI for every new part as well as assembly and sub-assembly (if manufactured)? Or it is up to organization to decide which parts, assemblies and sub-assemblies could be considered for FAI?
In my opinion the standard requires an FAI for every part as well as every assembly and sub assembly. You don't get to pick and choose which ones.
According cl. 8.4.3 Information for External Providers
The organization shall communicate to external providers its requirements for:
i. test, inspection, and verification (including production process verification);
The same question:
In which cases External Providers shall carry out the FAI and what will be the FAI subject (Parts? Assemblies? Sub-assemblies?)
In this case, you as the customer will be able to choose, based on your requirement to perform an FAI. For example, if you have to perform an FAI on an assembly, you will request the FAI for a purchased part or sub-assembly from your supplier in support of (i.e. use the supplier's data) your FAI. Your supplier will charge you for the (part or sub-assembly) FAI. Depending on the cost of the supplier's FAI, you may decide to perform the purchased item's FAI as part of your assembly FAI.

BTW FAI does not always require AS9102. You can document what you do in your FAI procedure for when AS9102 is used (i.e. customer requirement) and when it's not used.
 

Al Rosen

Holed-up in a Hotel in South Florida
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
It is up to the engineer to determine what dimensions are inspectable, what dimensions are for FAI only, and what dimensions are for reference (meaning they probably will never be measured). Inspectable dimensions need to be inspected for each batch produced. FAI dimensions are inspected on the initials run. The FAI dimensions along with the inspectable dimensions answer the question: Did we make the part correctly?

Let's say your part looks great. Then a few months later, you want to change a few dimensions. The engineer updates the drawing, and may make changes to the designation of certain dimensions (inspectable, FAI, Ref). You would then repeat the FAI on the initial run of the new revision parts. If it looks good, the next back you make, you will only inspect the inspectable dimensions.

Does that help?
In this example, a "delta" FAI may be performed, only verifying the changes.
 

MVladimir

Involved - Posts
#8
In my opinion the standard requires an FAI for every part as well as every assembly and sub assembly. You don't get to pick and choose which ones.
I completely agree with this statement!! No choose for 9100 certified Company ! Various product level (part, assembly, sub assembly) - various risks for final product !
Thanks for great opinion!
 

MVladimir

Involved - Posts
#9
Any ideas about cl. 8.4.3 Information for External Providers in part of FAI, please?
In which cases External Providers shall carry out the FAI and what will be the FAI subject (Parts? Assemblies? Sub-assemblies?)
 
#10
Any ideas about cl. 8.4.3 Information for External Providers in part of FAI, please?
In which cases External Providers shall carry out the FAI and what will be the FAI subject (Parts? Assemblies? Sub-assemblies?)
If you are doing this for Sikorsky ( or similar ), you should likely flow down the AS 9102 requirement to your vendors on your Purchase Order and have them do the FAI on any supplied parts & assemblies. COTS items not required. Up to you whether you want to perform an incoming inspection on said parts or go dock to stock based on your vendors FAI & inspection data.

You will have to do a higher level FAI if you are assembling said parts from a vendor into a higher level assembly.
 
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