When is the Initial PPAP Typically Submitted?

[Kurt Smith]

I am learning to preform PPAP's for our small manufacturing company. One thing that isn't clear from any resource I have read is when the process is typically done. For example, we have been approached for some prototypes and pre-production small batch parts. Parts that will eventually go towards 100s a week for production runs, but so far we have only made 1 to 5 at a time.

Several of the early orders were requested to ship before CMM reports could be made. And as we are new to this process, we haven't fully established our exact production plan for some fine details, as we haven't done a full run yet to identify problems. This is causing some issues as the customer is looking for completed PPAPs as we currently stand. We haven't run any significant production volumes yet, so I am having trouble with providing Process Studies or even detailed control plans.

So typically, when does PPAP get preformed? Is it before production starts like we are doing this time? Is it usually during the first run?

 

[Ron Rompen]

There is no 'correct' answer to this question Kurt. Although the acronym is for Production Part Approval Process (leading you to think that it should be done when everything is ready for normal production) customers frequently ask for PPAP submissions for prototype builds, pre-launch builds, proof of concept builds, etc. As the quality guy, your main responsibility is to provide those documents as requested. It can really pile onto your workload, but unfortunately thats the way things go in automotive sometimes.

 

[Kurt Smith]

There is no 'correct' answer to this question Kurt. Although the acronym is for Production Part Approval Process (leading you to think that it should be done when everything is ready for normal production) customers frequently ask for PPAP submissions for prototype builds, pre-launch builds, proof of concept builds, etc. As the quality guy, your main responsibility is to provide those documents as requested. It can really pile onto your workload, but unfortunately thats the way things go in automotive sometimes.

That makes sense with how ambiguous the standard has been. Any tips for handling situations like this? Do I go forward expecting to update each document regularly as things progress? The vast majority of this process is still subject to change as we scale up.

 

[Ron Rompen]

A big part of it is negotiating with your customer, to understand what they REALLY want/need. As an example, we had a customer (automotive) who needed to provide evidence to THEIR customer of progress in the manufacturing stages. We were able to come to an agreement that the 'PPAP submission' at various stages (prior to the full production-intent PPAP) would consist of a dimensional layout, material and processing certificates (heat treat and plating) and capability studies for designated SCs. The initial (prototype) submission also included our Control Plan, PFMEA and other documentation. Updated copies of these documents (if required) would also be submitted when necessary.
Yes, it was still a lot of work, but in the end, we were all able to agree on what was 'really' needed as opposed to what it says 'in the book'.
Always keep in mind that what the CUSTOMER wants can override anything that is in the AIAG manuals.

 

[John Predmore]

One answer to when PPAP is submitted is after the product/process is finalized and there are no planned changes to the product, tooling or production process. For practical reasons, the customer wants PPAP submissions well in advance of start-of-production, so the customer will say as early as possible. There is a tradeoff between these two conflicting objectives.

 

[Golfman25]

I am learning to preform PPAP's for our small manufacturing company. One thing that isn't clear from any resource I have read is when the process is typically done. For example, we have been approached for some prototypes and pre-production small batch parts. Parts that will eventually go towards 100s a week for production runs, but so far we have only made 1 to 5 at a time.

Several of the early orders were requested to ship before CMM reports could be made. And as we are new to this process, we haven't fully established our exact production plan for some fine details, as we haven't done a full run yet to identify problems. This is causing some issues as the customer is looking for completed PPAPs as we currently stand. We haven't run any significant production volumes yet, so I am having trouble with providing Process Studies or even detailed control plans.

So typically, when does PPAP get preformed? Is it before production starts like we are doing this time? Is it usually during the first run?

In your case you have multiple ppaps — pre-production and production. I would push back on anything more than a dimensional layout for pre production. As for production we usually submit with sample approval.

 

[Kurt Smith]

Thank you to everyone who responded. This is a big relief to confirm that much of this wouldn't usually finalize until after the production run starts. It gives me some confidence to send what is available and not have to dance around trying to justify what isn't ready yet.

 

[Johnnymo62]

I've seen prototype, preproduction & production PPAPs.

Just remeber production PPAPs need to be run on production representative equipment/processes.