When to start a formal corrective action as a follow-up action after audits

I

Iceman

#1
We are reviewing our internal audit process. One thing to consider is when to start a formal corrective action as a follow-up action after audits. Is it advisable for all nonconformities, or just when a quick fix is not achievable? Comments?

Johann
Icelandic Aluminium Co. Ltd.
Iceland
 
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M

Michael T

#2
Hi Iceman,

We have a follow-up or "audit" on each Corrective and Preventative Action item brought up, no matter how minute. It is actually part of the Request for Action (RFA) form we use to log and track CAR's & PAR's. Upon completion of the CAR/PAR, the RFA is logged into the system and I assign a follow-up date. This follow-up date is based upon the nature of the CAR/PAR and is designed to be timely, yet allow enough time for the action to be properly and thoroughly tested. If, during the follow-up, further corrective/preventative action is required, the matter is brought back before the Management Team or individual assiged to develop the resolution to the situation for further action.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Mike
 
F

Fire Girl

#3
Iceman

I believe you are asking about findings from internal audits and how they are handled. For any findings from Internal Auditing we issue a CPAR. There is a (reasonable) proposed close-out date. The Corrective or Preventive Action is checked for effectiveness. If it is still ineffective, it goes back to the Quality Board for re-evaluation. My personal feeling is that if I find problems while I'm doing internal auditing, chances are it is a problem. You might as well deal with it while it is a small problem, rather than wait until it is huge and your registrar finds it!

Hope this helps!

:)
 
F

Froggy

#4
Hi Iceman, I asked our external auditor the exact same question (do we have to write up "everything" esp. if it can be fixed immediately). His answer to me was, if you don't write up every one, how will you know whether or not you have a problem. I have informed my team of internal auditors to write up everything, in the hopes that as problems are corrected, we will eventually see a decrease in the amount of problems we have to write up.....
 
E

energy

#5
Fire Girl,
Can you give an example of an ineffective CPAR? Does this determination occur on the date the CPAR is due? I have always had a hard time explaining effectiveness of a Corrective Action, other than it was corrected. Are we talking about repeat N/C's?
energy
 
D

Dan Larsen

#6
Iceman,

I've used a system where the lead auditor (generally the Management Rep) has discriminatory authority to either issue an NCR or a "notice of issue". The CAR followed the classic approach for corrective action, the notice of issue was documented in an audit report that the auditee signed but a formal documented resolution was not required. The MR kept track of the notices and made them available to the auditors for subsequent audits. In many cases, the audit frequency was adjusted if a notice was issued.

We used a major/minor classification system to decide whether an NCR or notice would be desireable.

I typically use this type of system early in an implementation to minimize the amount of paperwork that could flood the system as the system gets up to speed. Many times, after about a year or so, it's almost easier to issue an NCR for all findings.

An additional note: the discretionary system was accepted easily by one registration auditor, but a second registration auditor felt it left room for abuse; he suggested "a finding is a finding" and an NCR should be issued for all findings.
 
F

Fire Girl

#8
Energy

How you doin'?

Have you ever seen my CPAR form? There is a place to write a corrective or preventive action. Below that is a space to have the department manager to sign off that the corrective or preventive action has been implemented. Under that I get the QA Manager to sign off that the action was effective. Essentially, if you go back to do a 'follow-up audit' and the problem still exists, your corr/preve action was not effective. Go back to the ol' drawing board and figure out something else. Why, haven't you ever had this happen to you?

:naughty:
 
E

energy

#9
Fire Girl,
Yes it has happened to me. It was a Customer Audit in a facility such as yours. It involved "handling" problems of various brackets that had to have a certain finish. The auditor asked us to explain how our corrective/preventive action for these N/C's was effective. I told him that when we get this type of rejection, I search the data base by part number and if that particular part number doesn't appear, it was effective. The answer stunk, but he just moved on to something else. I felt that was going to hammer us good. But, I think he cut us some slack because it's such a difficult thing to determine effectiveness.
I'd love to see your CPAR form.
energy

[This message has been edited by energy (edited 24 May 2001).]
 
D

Dan Larsen

#10
Energy,

Unless I missed something, I think your measure of effectivity sounds just fine for the situation you corrected. The issue is rejects of a particular type/part. You correct it and can demonstrate that there are no rejects of the type/part. Sounds effective to me!
 
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