When to submit a new PPAP? Colored resin pre-blended to blending it in-house

  • Thread starter chivas industries llc
  • Start date
C

chivas industries llc

#1
There is much confusion within our company concerning when certain changes require a new PPAP submission for a current production part. For example, we are switching from receiving our colored resin pre-blended to blending it in-house--using the exact same base resin and colorant our outside compounder was using.

Our APQP manager says we have to re-PPAP and re-do all testing called out by the specs on the assembly drawing, for each component for which we want to blend resin. (i.e. complete level 3 PPAP...) Our engineering manager disagrees, saying that this change should be transparent to our customer.


Under what circumstances, and in what situations, is it required that a subcontractor submit a new PPAP package for a current production part?

Thanks,

Melissa Weiandt
Associate Buyer
Plastics Div.
 
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C

Christian Lupo

#2
If you are dealing with an automotive customer you DEFINATLY have to re-ppap, unless you get a waiver from your customer. Always ask your customer if you are not sure if you should re-ppap or not. Just make sure you document waht the customer tells you.
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#3
Melissa,

As you already know, PPAP attemps to solidify the process of manufacturing and the control planning you set in place to ensure that all requirements are understood and that the process has the potential to produce these requirements. When the approved process changes, the impact must be determined, and the customer notified as appropriate.

What controls were in place for the original resin/colorant blending? Are they called out in the PPAP documentation? Have they changed? My guess is that your APQP person is probably correct. A change from blending at a source to an internal process (perhaps you are new to this process as well) is fairly significant and will likely have different controls (reference section II of the PPAP manual, 3, 7 and 9 on page 2). With these different controls, items such as the Flow Diagram, Control Plan, and FMEA will all be updated to reflect the change.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Kevin
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#4
Melissa, I also suggest you do a search here for PPAP as this is a topic which has been discussed a number of times. It might give you some other ideas. I just did a Search for PPAP (all forums) and about 80 threads came up.

...and re-do all testing...
The extent of specific retest(s) depends upon the specifics of the change. I would discuss you change(s) with the customer QA rep and ask what they feel is appropriate. In the past when i did this stuff I would make up a plan (proposal) and get the customer to approve it prior to proceeding with the plan. I would say "This is the proposed change" and "This is what we believe the change will affect." The plan says: "This is what we plan to do to ensure the changes do not change the product features we believe will be affected.

An example: If you machine steel parts which can rust -> a packaging change could prompt PPAP but validation would probably be limited to corrosion studies (if you previously validated this aspect).
 

Salman

Starting to get Involved
#6
chivas industries llc said:
Our engineering manager disagrees, saying that this change should be transparent to our customer.
Tell him that even change of your supplier is transperant to the customer, yet it still requires PPAP.
 
M

Murph095

#7
Just ask the supplier SQA if it is required, this will leave no doubt. Better yet, maybe ask that individual if they would be willing to come in and have a meeting decsribing what changes require what actions thus alleviating yourselves from this issue in the future.

Murph
 
S

Szacinski

#8
My understanding is that any process change should signal a new PPAP.

Only time you do not need to re-new the PPAP is when STA/SQA has said something else.
 
G

Gilberto - 2009

#9
chivas industries llc said:
There is much confusion within our company concerning when certain changes require a new PPAP submission for a current production part. For example, we are switching from receiving our colored resin pre-blended to blending it in-house--using the exact same base resin and colorant our outside compounder was using.

Our APQP manager says we have to re-PPAP and re-do all testing called out by the specs on the assembly drawing, for each component for which we want to blend resin. (i.e. complete level 3 PPAP...) Our engineering manager disagrees, saying that this change should be transparent to our customer.


Under what circumstances, and in what situations, is it required that a subcontractor submit a new PPAP package for a current production part?

Thanks,

Melissa Weiandt
Associate Buyer
Plastics Div.


Hello Melisa !

Do you have a many problems in process, I understand, bacause work in company bulk material.

As the manual PPAP 3º edition exists some ranks where it is not necessary to submit is where it is necessary to submit (itens I.3, I.3.1 - vide 7 and 8, I.3.2 and I.3.3 - vide item 7), these topics can help it very to remove some doubts.
NOTE: the auditors do not know very of SGQ for the segment of bulk material, you obtaining to have a trustworthy system can be relax therefore will pass easy in all the auditorships (no manual of referencia of TS or QS directly is applied the material in bulk, has that to make change)
Any doubt and/or clarification, enter in contact.

Att.
Gilbert:magic:
 
C

Cordon - 2007

#10
Gilberto said:
Hello Melisa !

Do you have a many problems in process, I understand, bacause work in company bulk material.

As the manual PPAP 3º edition exists some ranks where it is not necessary to submit is where it is necessary to submit (itens I.3, I.3.1 - vide 7 and 8, I.3.2 and I.3.3 - vide item 7), these topics can help it very to remove some doubts.
NOTE: the auditors do not know very of SGQ for the segment of bulk material, you obtaining to have a trustworthy system can be relax therefore will pass easy in all the auditorships (no manual of referencia of TS or QS directly is applied the material in bulk, has that to make change)
Any doubt and/or clarification, enter in contact.

Att.
Gilbert:magic:
You probably won't get a reply, the orginal post is over 6 years old.
 
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