When to write up a nonconformance and require a NCR - We produce labels

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#1
Hello to everybody.
I ve been browsing looking for Guide about when to raise a ncr(non-conformity report) and nothing is found.
It is clear is not worth to raise ncr for everything.
For one side when something is found defective but is a minor problem, is not convenient to raise it.(lot of paperwork, no value added)
It is clear if it is a considerable amount of defective product, of course it has to be done.
The problem is , people ask, well , when to raise it? In what amount of bad product?.
According to some % of bad product? Or cost of defective product?
It is not clear to establish a % because for example, we produce labels, very big and very small, in sheets of 30x90 inches size.sometimes we produce
20 big labels in 20 sheets (1 label in each sheet) if I define that with 10% in defective production I will raise a NCR, ok sound good. But if I produce 5000 small labels in 20 sheets (250 en each sheet), in this case 10 % is very little.
So is not possible to use this criteria.
I wonder what are some used practices for these cases?
Could someone give some insights?
Thanks
Pd .in this case we want to prepare almost all operators in the production team to raise the ncr and no to depend of the quality inspector to be raised.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#2
One feature I always liked in my Nonconformance Tracking Log was its application of three criteria to help decide the extent of action for addressing nonconformances. I would like to take credit for that, but that design was from an Environmental Engineer I worked with. In the Log I attached, you can use whatever criteria suit your business and customers.

It makes sense to not treat all the same way, based on risk and value. Still, all need to be addressed in some way and it is important to record them so you can understand if there are repeats that would indicate your actions need to be enhanced.
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Qualprod, most businesses produce defective product. There are many ways to deal with it. Here is one approach. Does the defect occur repeatedly and perhaps relate to the same product, materials, machine, workers, process, etc. Then you should document the n/c followed by a c/a to eliminate or mitigate the issue. I cover this and many other approaches in my eCourse "Understanding ISO 9001:2015.
Thanks Artjlewis
The point Is : how to define a clear criteria to raise the ncr .
I mean don't want to raise reports for all the cases, I will have cases with very little defective product, while others with too much.
I have heard someone there , it is possible to have a list of criteria, by type of product, cost, percentages, but have no idea where to start
Thanks
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Be more careful with your terminology. Nonconformity is not necessarily defective product.

Take a look at your acceptance criteria: do they define requirements so as to allow blemishes that are acceptable to your customers?

Now take a look at your NCR form. Why is it such a pain to complete? Can NC reporting be simplified to provide data that leads to valuable information?

From what you say you have a hair trigger invocation of onerous NC controls. So, apply your risk management thinking or process to tame your NC controls so they protect your reputation while being feasible and valuable.
 

indubioush

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
It sounds like you need a process for production sort/scrap. Then you can trend your yields and open a CAPA if you see a drastic change. For example, let's say you print 50 labels and one is smeared. If your manufacturing procedures instruct you to reject out that label, you would not open an NCR. Your yield is now 49/50. On the other hand, if you print 50 labels, box them up and then later realize your label had the wrong information on it, that is an NCR.
 

Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#7
Hello to everybody.
I ve been browsing looking for Guide about when to raise a ncr(non-conformity report) and nothing is found.
It is clear is not worth to raise ncr for everything.
That’s not so clear to me. I’d advice to record nearly all nonconformities. Records needn’t be complex. A quick entry into your database takes little effort. You can consolidate several similar instances into one record. And the record provides solid evidence of your handling of the NCs if a problem shows up later.

No record invites sloppy work. Without a record, how can you even be sure that NCs are really that? Or that they are being handled properly? If NC handling is “a lot of paperwork”, then maybe you need to look at your NC handling procedure.

Whether you take corrective action or not is a different issue, but the NCRs allow you to make informed decisions about your process.
 

Tagin

Trusted Information Resource
#8
It is clear is not worth to raise ncr for everything.
For one side when something is found defective but is a minor problem, is not convenient to raise it.(lot of paperwork, no value added)
It is clear if it is a considerable amount of defective product, of course it has to be done.
The problem is , people ask, well , when to raise it? In what amount of bad product?.
According to some % of bad product? Or cost of defective product?
What is the point of raising an NCR? It is to 1) log occurrences of nonconformances, and 2) to improve the system. So your NCR process should accommodate review of an NCR and determining if it should be pursued or simply logged and closed. Those NCRs which can be pursued in order to improve the process are the ones you want to spend effort on. That ROI of improvement cannot always be correlated directly with percentages or costs, which is why you are having a hard time trying to set some kind of artificial criteria. As JohnB said, use a risk mgmt approach to determine what the ROI will likely be from pursuing an NCR.

Don't discount logging & closing as inaction. It builds a database for patterns and trends which will help in the long run to uncover better improvements that might be overlooked if you try to react to individual events rather than the larger issue causing the pattern/trend.

Pd .in this case we want to prepare almost all operators in the production team to raise the ncr and no to depend of the quality inspector to be raised.
Again, if you are going to do that, then you need to allow in your process to evaluate the newly created NCR and determine if it should be pursued or simply logged and closed.
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#9
What is the point of raising an NCR? It is to 1) log occurrences of nonconformances, and 2) to improve the system. So your NCR process should accommodate review of an NCR and determining if it should be pursued or simply logged and closed. Those NCRs which can be pursued in order to improve the process are the ones you want to spend effort on. That ROI of improvement cannot always be correlated directly with percentages or costs, which is why you are having a hard time trying to set some kind of artificial criteria. As JohnB said, use a risk mgmt approach to determine what the ROI will likely be from pursuing an NCR.

Don't discount logging & closing as inaction. It builds a database for patterns and trends which will help in the long run to uncover better improvements that might be overlooked if you try to react to individual events rather than the larger issue causing the pattern/trend.

Again, if you are going to do that, then you need to allow in your process to evaluate the newly created NCR and determine if it should be pursued or simply logged and closed.
Thanks to all
I understand in respect to log all the non conformances and decide what to do.
but the question/doubt persists.
I know it may exist different criterias for the evaluation once is detected, but thats what I´m looking for.
I remember I got some day form the net a good criteria but not remember where , it was like this:
1- type of product, product A,B,C,D , with values 1, 2,3, and 4
2- Cost 0 -20 USD, 21-50, 51 and up (values 1,2 and 3)
3- time spent in production, 0-60 min, 61 - 120 min, 121 and up, values 1 , 2, 3
So if the nonconformity resulted in 1+1+1=3 , decision = no NCR risen
If 1+3+3 = 7, NCR is risen.
So values falling in certain ranges, deserved the NCR.

The point is if it is very low value of the nonconfrmance, time spent , few minutes, some cents.
there is no need to waste time the reporting these kind of non conformances.

And the need is to take the decision immediatelly , based on such criteria.
I know , it is also convenient to log all the nonconformances in order to propose improvements.
but no to rise NCR for all.

Hope have explained well.
Thanks
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
You seem to be confusing NCR with CAR.

Labels that do not conform to your acceptance criteria (and your customer’s acceptance criteria) must be controlled as nonconforming product and dispositioned using your NCR (nonconforming product report).

Deciding when to invest in removing the root causes of these nonconformities from your system is based on the expected return on investment using your CAR (corrective action request).

Kindly clarify so we can help.
 
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