When to write up a nonconformance and require a NCR - We produce labels

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#11
You seem to be confusing NCR with CAR.

Labels that do not conform to your acceptance criteria (and your customer’s acceptance criteria) must be controlled as nonconforming product and dispositioned using your NCR (nonconforming product report).

Deciding when to invest in removing the root causes of these nonconformities from your system is based on the expected return on investment using your CAR (corrective action request).

Kindly clarify so we can help.
Thanks John for your comments.


Maybe I have not explained in the right manner.

Labels that do not conform to your acceptance criteria (and your customer’s acceptance criteria) must be controlled as nonconforming product and dispositioned using your NCR (nonconforming product report).

About this, ok, when labels are found in nonconformance, are controlled and dispositioned, but in this sense,
they are separated and repaired or scrapped but they are not documented when few pieces were resulted with nonconformity.

For example in this case, production are 100,000 labels, and 20 were found, I don´t think is worth the time spent in documenting these cases.
Moreover, my customer accepts me 2% of bad product (2000) ,in this case, other reason for not to be documented.
when I say not documented is, not NCR was risen, nor a CAR, just the case is registered in the log file.

Deciding when to invest in removing the root causes of these nonconformities from your system is based on the expected return on investment using your CAR (corrective action request)

Ok right, if A ncr was risen, because it was found great quantity of nonconformance product, from here a correction
or full analysis is done to find root causes.

Concluding, I don´t see the need to raise NCR for all the cases regardless the quantity found in nonconformance.
and that is the reason I´m looking for a criteria to be established.

Thanks , Hope is clear, sorry for my english.

P.S. Anyway, I log all cases in a spreadsheet.
Afterwards, I´ll analyze such information in order to detect improvements.
 
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John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#12
You are keeping a record of the nature (type) of all nonconformities in your labels. That spreadsheet is fine. You do not need a separate NCR for each one.

As you eliminate the root causes of the most expensive types of nonconforming label you will eventually find yourself dealing with the types or natures of nonconformity that now seem unworthy of corrective action.

That is the consequence of consistently apply the 80:20 rule. Some of the trivial many become the vital few as your nonconforming labels approach zero.

Defining the line between the trivial many and the vital few for corrective action is your choice but you may focus your improvement efforts by replacing 80:20 with 50:4.
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#13
You are keeping a record of the nature (type) of all nonconformities in your labels. That spreadsheet is fine. You do not need a separate NCR for each one.

As you eliminate the root causes of the most expensive types of nonconforming label you will eventually find yourself dealing with the types or natures of nonconformity that now seem unworthy of corrective action.

That is the consequence of consistently apply the 80:20 rule. Some of the trivial many become the vital few as your nonconforming labels approach zero.

Defining the line between the trivial many and the vital few for corrective action is your choice but you may focus your improvement efforts by replacing 80:20 with 50:4.
Thanks again John

Sorry for continuing this issue, but I think is helping me too much, and I think it will be for other people as well.

You are keeping a record of the nature (type) of all nonconformities in your labels. That spreadsheet is fine. You do not need a separate NCR for each one.

I forgot to explain, when I say NCR it is a printed form (letter size) with a special codification, day/month/process and consecutive (12-10-sales-01), which is filled out, with the description of the nonconformance, work order, date, time,It also is shown the disposition, repair, segregation, concession,scrap, etc. and defining if this nonconformance will be solved with just a correction or if will need a Full analysis (fishbone), finally include a place for the signature of involved people for the closure, so the nonconformance is documented by using this form, additionaly I have a master list of nonconformances, which is used for the tracking of the NCR´s , monitoring , their status, opened, in progress, closed out. (you can see this task is very time consuming).
Additionally , I also have a list (also a spreadsheet) of nonconformances which were not documented.
When I do the analysis of data for improvements , I use both lists.
From here (according of what you say) I got something, for the documenting, I could evaluate to keep just one, the printed form or just one spreadsheet and into it, to include all the information which is considered in the form.
But for make things very easy, I only fill out the NCR form but only when the nonconformity found goes from med to big quantity of nonconformance product, and the use of the spreadsheet when is quantity very small.
But my need still remain remain :unsure:, which aspects to consider at deciding if is worth to raise the NCR, compared against the quantity of bad product.


As you eliminate the root causes of the most expensive types of nonconforming label you will eventually find yourself dealing with the types or natures of nonconformity that now seem unworthy of corrective action.
Ok is understood.

That is the consequence of consistently apply the 80:20 rule. Some of the trivial many become the vital few as your nonconforming labels approach zero.

Ok, I understand is the Pareto

Defining the line between the trivial many and the vital few for corrective action is your choice but you may focus your improvement efforts by replacing 80:20 with 50:4

Please explain the 50:4

Thanks for your patience.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
Completing a separate NCR form for each batch of nonconforming labels is to inform others of the nonconforming product so it is held until it is dispositioned or corrected. The NCR is closed once it is verified that the approved actions were taken.

You do not mention your recording the nature of each nonconformity. It is important that you do this so similar types of nonconformity can be grouped for discovering and removing their root causes from the system (aka corrective action).

Please note: correction is putting it right whereas corrective action is stopping a type of nonconformity from happening again.

Nature is usually stated as the opposite of the requirement. For example: if sharp lines were required then the nature of the nonconformity would be blurred lines. Often we use codes for each type of nonconformity instead a lot of words.

50:4 is the same principle as 80:20 only it gives a sharper focus where at least 50% of the nonconformities come from just 4% of the causes (approximately of course). For more info see this: The 4-50 Rule
 

tony s

Information Seeker
Trusted Information Resource
#15
I forgot to explain, when I say NCR it is a printed form (letter size) with a special codification, day/month/process and consecutive (12-10-sales-01), which is filled out, with the description of the nonconformance, work order, date, time,It also is shown the disposition, repair, segregation, concession,scrap, etc. and defining if this nonconformance will be solved with just a correction or if will need a Full analysis (fishbone),
A nonconforming product report, I believe, should not have a section for cause analysis and corrective action. This will cause a lot of unnecessary effort to deal with the nonconforming products. All the more when nonconforming products are recurring part of the existing system and causes, in the context of the existing system, are unpreventable. To deal with nonconforming products, the organization should identify, segregate, rework, repair, re-verify or get a concession for them. However, if an organization attempts to eliminate the nonconformity that lead to the nonconforming product by initiating corrective action, a separate form/report should be utilized.
 
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