When will people learn the difference between OHSAS and ISO standards?

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N

Nyack

#22
I laughed at this because I have found myself making the same mistake on quite a few occasions. I guess one of the problems stems from the fact that a lot of auditors and companies pack 9001,14001 and 18001 into the same bundle and the fact that 18001 is not an ISO just disappears into the ether.

I have corrected myself many a time on this, but then again, at least I notice when I make the mistake.
 
#23
Hi Tsmith !

My answer to your initial question : many "experts" (?) want to believe that BS OHSAS 18001 is international, but you knows this OHSMS standard is BS (as 8800 is BS, 4801 is AS/NZS, Z10 is ANSI-AIHA, Z1000 is CSA, 12.0.230 is GOST, etc... all are national OHSMS standards even if they are used in many countries). Then these "experts" call the OHSMS British Standard* using the name ISO 18001, or rather forget systematically letters BS in his name BS BS OHSAS 18001.

* probably the best known of the OHSMS national standards.

The international OHSMS standard exists produced by ILO, it's ILO-OSH 2001. Besides ISO knows this fact, in ISO 26000 on Social Responsibility three standards are quoted for Quality Environment and OHS mangement systems : these are ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and ILO-OSH ...

Bye.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#24
I'm curious what "international" means in French because as defined in the
Cambridge Dictionary it means "involving more than one country". In means the same in many other English language dictonaries as well.

The last time I looked over 40 seperate national and other organizations developed OHSAS 18001:2007 and many nations had adopted it as their national standard for OHS.

When I last took time to think about it, when more than one nation gets involved in something it's generally considered to be international in nature.

Of course I could be just plain ignorant about international kind of stuff.
 
A

amanbhai

#25
Re: When will people learn the difference between OHSAS and ISO?

Why are you so surprised

A shepherd was herding his flock in a remote pasture when suddenly a brand-new BMW advanced out of a dust cloud towards him. The driver, a young man in a Broni suit, Gucci shoes, Ray Ban sunglasses and YSL tie, leans out the window and asks the shepherd, "If I tell you exactly how many sheep you have in your flock, will you give me one?"

The shepherd looks at the man, obviously a yuppie, then looks at his peacefully grazing flock and calmly answers, "Sure. Why not?"

The yuppie parks his car, whips out his Dell notebook computer, connects it to his AT&T cell phone, surfs to a NASA page on the internet, where he calls up a GPS satellite navigation system to get an exact fix on his location which he then feeds to another NASA satellite that scans the area in an ultra-high-resolution photo.

The young man then opens the digital photo in Adobe Photoshop and exports it to an image processing facility in Hamburg, Germany. Within seconds, he receives an email on his Palm Pilot that the image has been processed and the data stored. He then accesses a MS-SQL database through an ODBC connected Excel spreadsheet with hundreds of complex formulas. He uploads all of this data via an email on his Blackberry and, after a few minutes, receives a response. Finally, he prints out a full-color, 150-page report on his hi-tech, miniaturized HP LaserJet printer and finally turns to the shepherd and says, "You have exactly 1586 sheep."

"That's right. Well, I guess you can take one of my sheep." says the shepherd. He watches the young man select one of the animals and looks on amused as the young man stuffs it into the trunk of his car.

Then the shepherd says to the young man, "Hey, if I can tell you exactly what your business is, will you give me back my sheep?"

The young man thinks about it for a second and then says, "Okay, why not?"

"You're a consultant." says the shepherd.

"Wow! That's correct," says the yuppie, "but how did you guess that?"

"No guessing required." answered the shepherd. "You showed up here even though nobody called you; you want to get paid for an answer I already knew; to a question I never asked; and you don't know crap about my business ....

" ... Now give me back my dog."


How else can we choose how to use:cool::bonk:

You do not need to have any qualifications to be a consultant other than a business card:agree1:
I am a consultant!;)
 
#26
Hi !

Randy, I was sure that you will intervene. I'm surprised that you look in a dictionary to understand in your country what is the nationality of a standard.

But you pretend to not know (but you does) that a national standard is which produced by the national competent organism, and international produced by an international one. In Europe we have an intermediate level that is "community" with the European standards.

Thus the international ISO 9001 standard is also approved by Europe (EN ISO 9001) and by European countries (NF EN ISO 9001, BS EN ISO 9001 ...). But even if a company uses a alien standard in his country, this standard does not become international (ex: if a French company uses ANSI / AIHA Z10, this standard is American allways but has still not French). You knows that, BS OHSAS 18001 is not an international standard, it is used in many countries because it is older and better known than other national standards (such as ANSI / AIHA Z10 for example). By cons ILO-OSH is truly an international standard (it is also referenced by most national standards or outright adopted by countries). Thus.

Sidney, when I asked "what is the origin of your standard" I wiched to know the organization name which had published (the registered trade-mark on the document).

But the question is the audit of a type of management with documents common to several areas of management, also remember to respond to this discussion.

Good Sunday.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#27
Well I checked and the word "international" means the same in French and English so the translation and understanding problem isn't mine, neither is a fixation on who publishes a document which seems to be the case here with 18001.

Looking at the list below I can't help but wnder where it escapes understading that folks other than the British put 18001 together...My geography education is a bit off, could you tell me in which part of the British Isles I can find Germany, Spain, Greece or Zimbabwe? I'm also having trouble locaing America, Singapore, Sweden, Mexico and Columbia...Are they someplace around Scotland?

Looking at the list below I see a whole bucnh of countries located in what I thought was Europe...Is there a different Europe with countries I don't have knowledge of?

This edition of OHSAS 18001 has been developed with the assistance of the following cooperating organizations:

American Industrial Hygiene Association (AIHA)
Asociación Española de Normalización y Certificación (AENOR)
Association of British Certification Bodies (ABCB)
British Standards Institution (BSI)
Bureau Veritas
Comisión Federal de Electricidad (CFE), (Gerencia de la seguridad industrial)
Czech Accreditation Institute (CAI)
Det Norske Veritas (DNV)
DS Certification A/S
EEF the manufacturers’ organisation
ENLAR Compliance Services, Inc.
Health and Safety Executive1)
Hong Kong Quality Assurance Agency (HKQAA)
Inspecta Certification
Institution of Occupational Safety and Health (IOSH)
Instituto Argentino de Normalización y Certificación (IRAM)
Instituto Colombiano de Normas Técnicas y Certificación (ICONTEC)
Instituto de Normas Técnicas de Costa Rica (INTECO)
Instituto Mexicano de Normalización y Certificación (IMNC)
Instituto Uruguayo de Normas Técnicas (UNIT)
ITS Consultants
Japan Industrial Safety and Health Association (JISHA)
Japanese Standards Association (JSA)
Korea Gas Safety Corporation (ISO Certificate Division)
Lloyds Register Quality Assurance (LRQA)
Management Systems Certification Limited
National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI)
National University of Singapore (NUS)
Nederlands Normalisatie-instituut (NEN)
NPKF ELECTON
NQA
Quality Management Institute (QMI)
SABS Commercial (Pty) Ltd.
Service de Normalisation Industrielle Marocaine (SNIMA)
SGS United Kingdom Ltd
SIRIM QAS International
SPRING Singapore
Standards Institution of Israel (SII)
Standards New Zealand (SNZ)
Sucofindo International Certification Services (SICS)
Swedish Industry Association (Sinf)
TÜV Rheinland Cert GmbH – TÜV Rheinland Group
Standards Association of Zimbabwe (SAZ)

We would also like to recognize the invaluable contribution made by those many organizations who took the time to review the working drafts of OHSAS 18001, and who submitted comments for consideration. This helped us greatly in improving the standard, and is much appreciated.
 
#28
Hi all !

Randy, every day you uses youself different products or services developped in different countries out of USA... Yet you stay American ... even if you goes in China or Egypt ! You don't become Chinese, Egyptian or even "international"...

It is such a standard. BSI has used skills* of various foreign agencies, but BSI is an british agency (not international) ... Yet BS OHSAS 18001 is british, but not international as an ISO, IEC or any other really international standardization body. Even if BS OHSAS 18001 is used in China or Egypt it does not become Chinese or Egyptian nor international. But this shall not prevent companies to use the British standard (or your Z10) in other countries of course !

* I am also quite surprised that BSI need such many bodies to copy the ISO 14001 and add a reference to the international standard ILO-OSH.

Bye.
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#29
We apparently have more of a problem with 18001 being British than with the document itself? One must be careful that the Thread doesn't become controversial.

Other that it being a BS document, what specifically is wrong with 18001?
 
#30
Hi Randy !

Thank you to be interested in my ideas. I have already expressed, and I summarize: ILO-OSH (international and very legitimate source, BS 8800, ANSI-AIHA Z10 and CSA Z1000 * (national standard) are better OHSMS models to improve H&S in our companies than BS OHSAS 18001 (british standard which was not built for H&S but simply copied from ISO 14001). Nevertheless it is possible to work properly with BS OHSAS 18001 if you want to stay with this standard.

I'm an old H&S expert and I have analyzed and compared these new standards ** born in 2001, 2005, 2006... instead of taking the only one (BS :1999) wich "consultants" wanted to choose for me without this analysis...

I also think that instead of forcing their customers to maintain a single choice (like when there was only BS standards choice), external consultants should help of their customers to open theirs knowledges (now there is a wider choice) and choose for themselves because H&S management is an internal affair.

Bye.

* For example, do not you think that ANSI-AIHA Z10 is an excellent OHSMS? If I was American I would use it probably. But I am in an international group and I use the international standard ILO-OSH.

** My country and others have done the same by creating their own standard (but I obviously did not create).
 
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