When your Owner is the Sales Guy...

N

NHopkins

#1
I am so happy to have the Cove to go to. You folks are a massive source of info and support...that being said...

Our company has a loose structure, the owners and operations manager are the sales people...we also have operations staff, Technicians, Support, Admin, and Engineering. I've got the buy in of everyone in the company with the exception of the SALES Group. Our owners and Ops manager are bought into the system where it connects with everything EXCEPT SALES. So the initial point of contact between our company and our clients is fast and loose while the rest of us are towing the quality line. Here's an example:

One of Upper Management was contacted by our biggest client hot for a bid on a project that was "just like" another project we did in the past. Unfortunately, and we didn't know this up front, it was just NOT like the other project in just enough ways to make a huge difference in material costs and man hours and lead time.
Since the client needed the quote next day, the old project was used as the basis for the quote...and we got the project...
Now we get into the nitty gritty of design...and it's massively different...and our owner comes to me wanting to know how this could happen. So I explain that if we'd have done our due diligence and asked the important questions and followed our bid process we'd have known up front that this wasn't, in fact, just like the other project and we'd have been able to account for these issues. As obvious as that is he just can't accept it. He wants to be able to quote projects fast but have it be 100% accurate.

I'm frustrated, and at a loss as to how to proceed. All of our projects could be considered custom, so there's no real chance to setup proper quoting templates. I'm working on data gathering sheets to help get proper information but am afraid that when it comes to these quick bids, they'll be thrown to the curb.

Any advise would be appreciated!

thanks!
Nick
 
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P

PaulJSmith

#2
Enough incidents like that may sway their stance, eventually. Then again, it may not. Only time will tell. I used to work for a family-owned company with the same problem; President (owner's son) was head of sales. No amount of evidence would convince him that those old "fast and loose" ways just weren't cutting it in a modern business climate. After five years of trying, my solution was to move on to another company.

That 100+ year old family-owned business is no longer in business, by the way. They ran out of money because they kept underbidding jobs and giving unsubstantiated discounts just to win the contracts (amongst other internal issues).

Show them the hard numbers. They'll either understand that they cannot continue to loose money, or you'll eventually be looking for another job regardless.
 
N

NHopkins

#3
It's been an up and down sort of thing here for the last few years, alternating between make it happen and full stop on quality. I was leaving, had another position lined up, but was talked into staying. And the support has been here in everything but this. I just finished a non-conformance on this issue as my only recourse, with all accompanying documentation of course.

I'll update.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#4
The problem is that customers want immediate turn around (you served the customer) and you need to take time to do the homework necessary to put together a valid proposal (you want to stay in business). I think you have two options. 1) The ownership philosophy can change and require the due dillegence prior to quote. It will take more time, but eliminate the mistakes. And explain this to your customers. 2) On "rush" items like this, make them contingent on a full review.

And finally, whenever you hear the term "just like" your radar should go up and you should require extra dilegence. Been there, done that. Good luck.
 
M

Murphys Law

#5
I'd look at leaving if this continued. Sounds as if he cannot transition and let go. You'll always be his employee not the companies.

I worked in a small company once and worked for the bosses son. I got sick of his temper tantrums. Life it too short.
 
J

JaneB

#6
Ah yes, the old 'we'll follow our system except when we're in a hurry' thing. Allied with 'we'll leave Sales out of it, after all, they just have to sell and that's nothing to do with the quality system.

Yet here is a practically text book example of the flaws in those two myopic and misguided beliefs.

It's a worry if he just can't 'get' that Sales need to be part of the management system.

Have you tried asking him what he thinks caused this problem (root cause/s, not symptom!). And what he thinks the solution is to prevent recurrence? Also, have you checked to make sure that whatever your bid system is, that it can be applied reasonably fast? Because it shouldn't slow things down too much and if it does tie sales people up in too many knots, they'll sabotage it/ignore it/go around it.

Is it at all possible to take this as an improvement issue and get a few people together - all the stakeholders of course, including Sales! - to look at it and see if jointly you can streamline it (if it needs streamlining) while maintaining a reasonable degree of control?

Although he may need to have this happen more and lose him considerably more $$ before he's willing to start thinking about what is obvious to you (and me). Definitely frustrating.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
bid on a project
A bid usually has a process and time to respond (Ex:By date and time in a sealed envelop) and project details provided, and opportunity to get more details where necessary. This bid becomes binding.
Else it is as loose structured as your organization so to say., and you must take the next opportunity to send in amendment to your bid, that coves you well.
Something casual cannot become binding overnight.
E&OE (Errors and Omissions exempted) must be printed on your quote for such situations.
 
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