Where did 4.10.2.3 - Positive Recall - At Risk - go?

M

Michel Saad

#1
Where did it go?

Hi folks,

In ISO9000(1994) or Qs9000 at section 4.10.2.3 there is text about releasing incoming material that has not yet been inspected.

Where did this requirement go in ISO9000(2000)? It is hard to beleive that it has gone away. IF not in ISO9000(2000), is it in the TS16949 additions?

Thanks,
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Good question Michel,

Let's discuss 7.4.3 Verification of purchased product:

The organization shall establish and implement the inspection or other activities necessary for ensuring that purchased product meets specified purchase requirements.

Does it cover the old requirement? I think it does.

/Claes
 
D

David Hartman

#3
I believe that you'll find what your looking for in 8.2.4 Monitoring and measurement of product . The third paragraph reads,
Product release and service delivery shall not proceed until the planned arrangements (seed 7.1) have been satisfactorily completed, unless otherwise approved by a relevant authority and , where applicable, by the customer.
This appears to be a simplified version of the requirement found in the `94 version that was repeated for Incoming, In-Process, and Final inspection.

Hope this helps.:)
 
A

Al Dyer

#4
Even if there is an agreement between standards, on how to skirt any issues, do the following for your company:

Inspect to your own requirements and those that reflect your customer expectations, not ISO/QS/TS etc... words of suggestion.

Your company will be judged by your performance, not parroting other standards.

Al... :bigwave:
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#5
Also, 9001-2000 section 8.2.4, third paragraph, kinda covers the "positive recall" from 1994 regarding in-process material.

7.4.3 doesn't address early-release of incoming material as clearly IMO, but I guess you can construe the "other activities" to cover it.
 
D

David Hartman

#6
Al, I agee that we should
Inspect to your own requirements and those that reflect your customer expectations, not ISO/QS/TS etc...
, but I do believe that there are instances where the requirement in question legitimately comes into play.

As an example: At a former employer's we had requirements for certain purchased materials to undergo extended (beyond the norm) testing. Instead of holding up production while we waited for these samples to finish their testing, we ensured that the materials met all of the applicable requirements to the best of our ability, and began producing product using those materials.

It was understood that product was being produced "at risk" and that there was a chance (though slight) that it may have to be recalled should the samples fail the extended testing.

This entire process was controlled, required management concurrence, and I can't recall an instance where it wasn't worth the risk. Especially if you do your homework as it relates to supplier and material selection.
 
E

energy

#7
Good answer

ddhartma said:

I believe that you'll find what your looking for in 8.2.4 Monitoring and measurement of product
Product release and service delivery shall not proceed until the planned arrangements (see 7.1) have been satisfactorily completed, unless otherwise approved by a relevant authority and , where applicable, by the customer.
This appears to be a simplified version of the requirement found in the `94 version that was repeated for Incoming, In-Process, and Final inspection.

Hope this helps.:)
Your answer was dead on and everything else is frosting on the cake. Relevant authority is you! Bingo!:smokin:
 
M

Michel Saad

#9
Question

Thanks for all your responses.

Isin't "Product release and service delivery" the product you build (sell) vs the product you buy, or is it all the same?

Regards,
 
D

David Hartman

#10
Michal,

As I view it, it is all the same.

It is your responsibility to ensure that the product that your providing to your customer meets all of the defined/known requirements. That would include ensuring the adequacy of those outsourced components/materials/services that will form a part of your deliverable product.

The term "product" in this part of the standard really has dual meaning:

1. Procured materials/components/services that will form a part of your deliverable end item.

2. Your deliverable end item.

At least that's my interpretation, which you can adopt if you'd like. After all this really isn't a standard that we're dealing with, more like a guideline that really is open to interpretation.

Just make it work for you and then stand by and support your decisions.:bigwave:
 
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