Where does it state Supplier Corrective Action is required?

[Izoyd]

Hello all,

I have a discussion going on right now with our Purchasing Manager involving suppliers and corrective action (pertinent to ISO/TS 16949)that is driving me crazy.

We have a supplier scorecard set up to evaluate suppliers according to the performance trends in 7.4.3.2 on a monthly basis. The quality portion is handled through the quality department, i.e., quality issues requiring corrective action are handled by the quality department.

As far as the rest of the scorecard, such as scoring for delivery issues, it is up to the Purchasing Department to notify the supplier of the need for corrective action.

The Purchasing Manager is trying to tell me that 7.4.3.2 does not require corrective action of suppliers, it is monitoring only.

I am trying to tell him that it is inherent to the scorecard/evaluation process to identify supplier problems and force the supplier to improve, i.e, implement corrective and preventive action, regardless of the type of nonconforming situation (not just poor quality).

My only problem is, that I can't really seem to link the need for corrective action from suppliers to any of the specific requirements in section 7.4.

I feel I understand the intent of the standard, but can someone please help me support my logic through the specifics in the standard?

Thanks a bunch!!!

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I am trying to tell him that it is inherent to the scorecard/evaluation process to identify supplier problems and force the supplier to improve, i.e, implement corrective and preventive action, regardless of the type of nonconforming situation (not just poor quality).

Performance improvement does not come only from corrective/preventive actions. If you look at the TS standard, paragraph 8.4.d), you will see that analysis of data (and subsequent determination of actions) also applies to suppliers.

 

[Stijloor]

Performance improvement does not come only from corrective/preventive actions. If you look at the TS standard, paragraph 8.4.d), you will see that analysis of data (and subsequent determination of actions) also applies to suppliers.

Here is the requirement that Sidney was referring to:

8.4 Analysis of data

The organization shall determine, collect and analyze appropriate data to demonstrate the suitability and effectiveness of the quality management system and to evaluate where continual improvement of the effectiveness of the quality management system can be made. This shall include data generated as a result of monitoring and measurement and from other relevant sources.

The analysis of data shall provide information relating to

a) customer satisfaction (see 8.2.1),

b) conformity to product requirements (see 7.2.1),

c) characteristics and trends of processes and products including opportunities for preventive action, and

d) suppliers.

Good luck "convincing" your Purchasing Manager.

Stijloor.

 

[AndyN]

I believe you may be trying to use the standard to leverage a situation and, as is often the case, you won't win! The standard doesn't tell you that for suppliers who come up short, you have to 'force' anything. Indeed, if they are the sole source, they will possibly do what they please.

Are you having problems with suppliers? Is the Purchasing manager going to miss his management objectives if he doesn't take some kind of action with suppliers? Will the downstream processes suffer as a result of a lack of supplier correction? You may wish to look there for you 'compelling story' as to why actions should be taken on the suppliers...

 

[Richard Pike]

Hello all,

Partial Quote

The Purchasing Manager is trying to tell me that 7.4.3.2 does not require corrective action of suppliers, it is monitoring only.

Thanks a bunch!!!

Perhaps a short meeting with the CEO where the Purchasing Manager is respectfully asked to justify why he/she doesn't think their Suppliers should take corrective actions on problems they have caused and subsequently have presumably cost your Organization $$ ?

In my opinion whenever we resort to saying "because ISO says so" we may win the battle but will definatly lose the war. My Consultants & Trainers are expressly forbiddento resort to such statements. If they cant justify the action from a business perspective they shouldn't be out there.

 

[DrM2u]

Supplier Quality ... what a wonderful topic! OK, here's my :

In addition to the previous posts related to clause 8.4, I am citing from ISO/TS 16949:2002 (I don't have the 2009 edition handy):
Clause 7.4.1: "[...] Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained."
Clause 7.4.1.2: "[...] Conformity with ISO 9001:2000 is the first step in achieving this goal."
Clause 8.2.3: "[...] When planned results are not achieved, correction and corrective action shall be taken, as appropriate, to ensure conformity of the product."
To me this means that:
- I am supposed to establish a criteria for supplier performance monitoring (7.4)
- I am supposed to collect and analyze data based on established criteria (8.4)
- I am supposed to determine the need for action based on the data analysis (8.2.3)
- The supplier is supposed to respond to my requests for action in accordance to ISO 9001 requirements (clauses 5.2, 7.2, 8.2.1 & 8.5.2). (7.4.1.2)

:truce: Important: the need for action needs to be determined based on the astablished criteria and to ensure conformity of the product, therefore the need for action is not a given. Let's assume that one of my supplier performance criteria is on-rime delivery. If my supplier is constantly late but that has no impact on my ability to meet my commitments to my customers (delivery, cost, quality, etc), then is there realy a need to take actions?!? If you have a procedure that says that you have to take action for every supplier hick-up, regardless of its impact, then you have to. In such a case i would suggest to review your procedure though. Maybe your Purchasing Manager has a good reason not to take actions yet or maybe he should but doesn't. The data and the impact of suppliers' performance should justify one or the other.

One thing to keep in mind is that your suppliers have to run a business, just like you do. Constant bombardment with frivolous requests for actions places an unnecessary burden on their operations, just like your customers could do to yours. This can result in strained supplier relationships and reluctance to be open and proactive.