Where is the shall?

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D

D.Scott

#12
Howard Atkins said:
Would you give a NC if it was absent in the CP and there was no CSR?
:2cents: Just my 2 cents worth but don't get caught in a corner on this one. The requirement 8.2.4.1 Layout inspection and functional testing

A layout inspection and a functional verification to applicable customer engineering material and performance standards shall be performed for each product as specified in the control plans. Results shall be available for customer review.
addresses layout inspection and functional testing and what it should be done on.

It says you must do layout inspection and functional testing when it is called for in the control plan. If it is not specified in the control plan, it need not be inspected or tested. Only those which are specified are covered under 8.2.4.1. If you add layouts to your CPs when they are not specified, you are creating a situation where you must now follow 8.2.4.1

IMHO I can't see how an auditor could require it to be on the CP if it isn't a CSR.

Dave
 

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#13
Howard Atkins said:
What works for me is unfortunately not getting involved in stupid arguments with "stupid" auditors! Do I really need to add layout to all CP's
If it is not a CSR for you (it is for us <DCX>), and if you have no problems that could have been prevented by an annual layout, well...don't do it.

If any auditor gives you grief about this, you hold him until I get there and I'll "put the boots to him" for you. Seriously, tell him to leave, the audit is over, and you will not pay them. Don't let stupid people make you do stupid things.

ISO/TS is just a bag of fixes for common problems, so before you throw the baby out with the bath water, please think through what a layout (forget frequency) could do for you. Then look at your data.

Our data shows we get die wear and die damage, so there is value for us to do this. Our normal production checks do not look at all features (rads, engravings, etc) so we find it good to check the thing out.

But if we haven't run the die that year we don't do an annual layout. I have had this actual discussion with DCX. It did not run this year, we are not doing a layout. That would be stupid. We are not stupid. You don't pay us to waste your money. Lot's of bad feelings and blue words, but after lunch the whole issue was forgotten.

Good luck with it - please let us know what you decide to do, and the consequences (if any)
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#14
Howard Atkins said:
Would you give a NC if it was absent in the CP and there was no CSR?
No, I don't think I would. I would however, follow the audit trail further to see if it was done for PPAP, or if there were any stated requirements for it. Were there any other reasons you would do a layout.
 
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