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Where to put product and process characteristic in PFMEA (AIAG Manual 4th edition)?

K

kemble

#1
In the PFMEA(4th Edition) table, I'm confused about where to put the product characteristic and process characteristic?:(

Could someone give me a detail description?

Thanks a lot!
 

Jim Wynne

Super Moderator
#2
Re: Where to put product and process characteristic in PFMEA(4th edition)?

In the PFMEA(4th Edition) table, I'm confused about where to put the product characteristic and process characteristic?:(

Could someone give me a detail description?

Thanks a lot!
The PFMEA form (what I assume you're referring to as the "table" has columns on the left for product and process requirements, and further to the right there are columns for current process controls (prevention) and current process controls (detection). What else do you need to know?
 
K

kemble

#3
Re: Where to put product and process characteristic in PFMEA(4th edition)?

Besides what you mentioned, the potential causes column on which maybe fill the process characteristic?

Please give me a detail description about the characteristic on the PFMEA, thanks a lot!
 

Jim Wynne

Super Moderator
#4
Re: Where to put product and process characteristic in PFMEA(4th edition)?

Besides what you mentioned, the potential causes column on which maybe fill the process characteristic?
If I'm understanding you correctly, there is a potential for aspects of the process (process characteristics) to fail, so it's possible to use the failure of process characteristics as potential causes of product failures.

Please give me a detail description about the characteristic on the PFMEA, thanks a lot!
Comprehensive descriptions are a bit beyond the scope of what we do here, and it's not clear what you're trying to find out. Do you have a copy of the AIAG FMEA manual (or SAE J1739)?
 
K

kemble

#5
Re: Where to put product and process characteristic in PFMEA(4th edition)?

The reason why I ask where to put the product and process characteristic in PFMEA(4th edition) is the linkage between PFMEA and Control Plan, I think that the linkage should contain the characteristic(product/process).

--------------------------------------------------------------
<FMEA 2008 AIAG.pdf>,on the page of 112(bottom of paper):
In addition to the list of Recommended Actions and their subsequent follow-up as a result of the PFMEA activity, a Control Plan should be developed13. Some organizations may elect not to specifically identify the related product and process characteristics” in the PFMEA. In this situation, the “Product Characteristics” portion of the Control Plan may be derived from the “Requirements” portion of the “Process Function/Requirements” column and the “Process Characteristics” portion may be derived from the “Potential Cause(s) of Failure Mode” column. When the team develops the Control Plan, they need to assure that the PFMEA current controls are consistent with the control methods specified in the Control Plan.
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If the product characteristic was put on the "Requirements" column of PFMEA,and the correlative process characteristics were put on the "Potential Cause(s) of Failure Mode" column,where the control methods should be put,"Current Process Control Prevention" or "Current Process Control Detection"?

Could you please give me the detail explanation about the following points:
1.The linkage of PFMEA and Control Plan.
2.The perfect place(PFMEA Column) to put the product and process characteristics in the PFMEA.

Thanks a lot!
 

Jim Wynne

Super Moderator
#6
Re: Where to put product and process characteristic in PFMEA(4th edition)?

The reason why I ask where to put the product and process characteristic in PFMEA(4th edition) is the linkage between PFMEA and Control Plan, I think that the linkage should contain the characteristic(product/process).

--------------------------------------------------------------
<FMEA 2008 AIAG.pdf>,on the page of 112(bottom of paper):
In addition to the list of Recommended Actions and their subsequent follow-up as a result of the PFMEA activity, a Control Plan should be developed13. Some organizations may elect not to specifically identify the related product and process characteristics” in the PFMEA. In this situation, the “Product Characteristics” portion of the Control Plan may be derived from the “Requirements” portion of the “Process Function/Requirements” column and the “Process Characteristics” portion may be derived from the “Potential Cause(s) of Failure Mode” column. When the team develops the Control Plan, they need to assure that the PFMEA current controls are consistent with the control methods specified in the Control Plan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

If the product characteristic was put on the "Requirements" column of PFMEA,and the correlative process characteristics were put on the "Potential Cause(s) of Failure Mode" column,where the control methods should be put,"Current Process Control Prevention" or "Current Process Control Detection"?

Could you please give me the detail explanation about the following points:
1.The linkage of PFMEA and Control Plan.
2.The perfect place(PFMEA Column) to put the product and process characteristics in the PFMEA.

Thanks a lot!
Let's back up a step--you're neglecting to consider the process flow diagram (PFD), which is where you should be starting. The PFD should list the process steps or operations in the order they occur. Those process operations should go in the leftmost column on the PFMEA form (Process Step/Function). For each step there is a "Requirements" column--one for Product and one for Process. Ideally there should be an entry for each category. The "Product" characteristic is about specifications--the characteristic of the product affected by the current operation. The "Process" characteristic is about the feature of the process that controls the product characteristic in question--something that can be controlled in the process such that the product characteristic will conform to requirements.

The potential cause(s) of failure modes will almost always relate to process characteristics.

In the Current Process Controls columns (one each for prevention and detection) the current controls are listed (if there are any)--what's currently done to prevent the failure mode in question, and what's done to detect it if the prevention control fails (or doesn't exist).

The process control plan (PCP) should show the same operations as the PFMEA, in the same order. The current process controls on the PFMEA should be transferred to the PCP for each operation, unless there are PFMEA Recommended Actions that have been completed and result in new control methods.

I hope this answers your questions.
 
K

kemble

#7
Re: Where to put product and process characteristic in PFMEA (AIAG Manual 4th edition

Thanks for your timely reply.
Now "process operations" is okey,it is consistent in PFD,FMEA,CP.
But I'm still confused about how to keep the consistency of characteristics(Process/Process) in PFD,FMEA,CP.

Please give me some detail explanation.(please refer to the attached file)
Thanks a lot!
 

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