Where to Start to Implement ISO 9001

[John Broomfield]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

Yes, I agree.

Good advice. But some confusing statements. eg, Trying to ensure that one's system meets ISO 9001 is not 'implementing ISO 9001' ? And why would you advise renaming 'corrective action' to the even longer phrase of 'stopping recurrence of nonconformity'?? If you want to advise on using active verbs (again, good advice), why not just 'doing/taking/managing corrective action'? One might as well learn - and use - the shorter & correct term IMO.

Thanks, Jane, for your opinions. Better for users of the system to be no doubt about what corrective action is meant to achieve. Most users think in terms of correction and "managing corrective action" sheds no more light for their true understanding.

The shorthand for ensuring your system conforms to ISO 9001 as "implementing ISO 9001" has confused the many poor souls who end up with an "ISO System". Some of these works of fiction are even kept on the "I-drive"!

We also read other confusing expressions from experts such as "get ISO 9001" as short-hand, not for buying a copy of the standard, but for obtaining certification that the system meets the requirements of ISO 9001. Thankfully, the expression "ISO certification" is dying if not yet dead!

 

[JaneB]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

John,


You have certain views about what's 'better' for users, and mine are different in some areas. I share your dislike for works of fiction on the I-drive, but then none of my clients get that kind of system But I also don't want to decide for my clients what's 'better' for them - I work with them as a partner so that together we work out what's best for them.

Few of my clients have any trouble with the proper term (corrective action)- they have much, much more trouble with the 'conformity' word. And my specialist consulting expertise is with service-based systems - perhaps yours is mainly with manufacturing, where it's understandably more common? Or just maybe your clients like long obtuse phrases instead of short clear ones. I don't.

Bbut look, it's an endless argument, this one, & not one that I'm going to pursue as I already made my point.

Perhaps your poor souls like it - I know that any of my clients - past, present and probably future - would shake their heads, blink a couple of times, and then look at me waiting for it to be translated into real English.

I'll agree to disagree.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

Thankfully, the expression "ISO certification" is dying if not yet dead!

Really? What's wrong with it? I don't think it's dying or dead - at least, not in my part of the world. I'd be actually thrilled if people knew the right term rather than the mistaken but oft used 'ISO accreditation'.

 

[QualityKey]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

QualityKey,

No need for a traditional gap analysis.

Start by analyzing how your organization converts customer needs into cash. Document the results of this analysis preferably using a deployment or swimlane flowchart at the level of your organization, its customers and suppliers.

This determines the key processes in your organization's core process, list these in a spreadsheet and assign the name of an expert to each process.

Then list the key processes that support the core process. These come from ISO 9001 and "common" sense. Be careful not to miss recruiting to go with training (essential for competence) and use active verbs (so corrective action is renamed stopping recurrence of nonconformity).

You should now have a list of key processes each of which is assigned to an owner. Categorize these processes according to the following status: as-is, partly new and new. Partly new is a process you already have but in needs some new controls to conform to ISO 9001. New is a process currently missing from your system (training will be required to put it in place).

Then start understanding and developing the system that runs your business by working with each of the process experts to analyze and document their process to the extent necessary for effective planning, operation and control (you may need lead auditor training to do this well). Ask the process owners to bring with them all existing forms, instructions and other documentation for their process to eliminate duplication and redundancy. Tie only the forms and instructions actually used into the procedures you are creating.

This should take from 3 to six months. When you have completed this work, come back here for more guidance.

BTW, you write the quality manual at the end to describe the system you have discovered. Again if you write the manual to specify the system at the beginning you will end up with a work of fiction.

You have touched on our biggest problem ever, I believe what you have said is the biggest chunk of the gap and it is what we are struggling with.

Anyways, I have mentioned during the discussions that we have been with some of what you said and have been trying to comply to the ISO for a year or so " not implementing as you said, I like the idea by the way" but the management feel that we are far away from the ISO. Basically, I want to prove the opposite, I want to get the certificate in less than three months!! Is that possible? Would anyone agree?

By doing the Gap Analysis, I want to find it out what exactly missing? what exactly available? what exactly needs only some improvements? and go from there, not to miss around with things that add no value to the ISO compliance project!!


Just yesterday, I have developed an idea and I would like to ask you and all experts if you agree.

One of the big and important departments "within the operation unit" has all that you have said well documented and in place and I think this due to the fact that they have a very good consulting company that runs most of the activities they have. So I thought what if we go for certification on this department level as a pilot and see if we are successful we can then generalize it. Is it ok to go for certification on this level? would CB grant a certificate for it?

Again, the main reason I want to take the certificate is to:
1- Get the buy in.
2- Get the budget/fund and support we need for the certification from this department, because if they are convinced with my idea, they want to be the first to make it to the ISO ahead of other departments.
3- if we are successful with them, everybody else will strive for the same.
4- Once everybody is on board, other projects will follow for improvements.

Please tell me if you agree with this idea or not?and why?

 

[QualityKey]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

You're welcome. I really like it when someone actually takes the time to say thank you (instead of simply vanishing into silence, leaving one with no idea about whether what was said was helpful or not). It leaves me feeling more inclined to respond next time (instead of the opposite).

You also made the effort to explain what was going on, to give more info when needed, and thus you get better advice & people willling to offer help. And I'm betting will do again in future because of that.

As opposed to the 'hey I know zilch, I've read nothing & done no searches, but tell me everything I need to know without me explaining anything - ineffective in my view & I've got other things to do if I want to guess. Like Sudoku and cryptic crosswords

Well! this is the least I can say , you and all those who gave me advice have helped me to see things that I never thought of and I am more confident now and can see the way ahead of me.

I assume it not always possible to have this number of experts with different experinence and backgound togather debating sometime and agreeing other times on the best advice for my case, and it is for a free.

I understand that everyone of you has his/her unique approach and this really adds value to the discussion and to the final result. Also I feel that I should have explained more but I try to make it short for readers rather than long and boring paragraphs.

 

[John Broomfield]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

John,


You have certain views about what's 'better' for users, and mine are different in some areas. I share your dislike for works of fiction on the I-drive, but then none of my clients get that kind of system But I also don't want to decide for my clients what's 'better' for them - I work with them as a partner so that together we work out what's best for them.

Few of my clients have any trouble with the proper term (corrective action)- they have much, much more trouble with the 'conformity' word. And my specialist consulting expertise is with service-based systems - perhaps yours is mainly with manufacturing, where it's understandably more common? Or just maybe your clients like long obtuse phrases instead of short clear ones. I don't.

Bbut look, it's an endless argument, this one, & not one that I'm going to pursue as I already made my point.

Perhaps your poor souls like it - I know that any of my clients - past, present and probably future - would shake their heads, blink a couple of times, and then look at me waiting for it to be translated into real English.

I'll agree to disagree.

Jane,

Please be assured that I am not talking about your clients or my clients.

John

 

[John Broomfield]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

You have touched on our biggest problem ever, I believe what you have said is the biggest chunk of the gap and it is what we are struggling with.

Anyways, I have mentioned during the discussions that we have been with some of what you said and have been trying to comply to the ISO for a year or so " not implementing as you said, I like the idea by the way" but the management feel that we are far away from the ISO. Basically, I want to prove the opposite, I want to get the certificate in less than three months!! Is that possible? Would anyone agree?

By doing the Gap Analysis, I want to find it out what exactly missing? what exactly available? what exactly needs only some improvements? and go from there, not to miss around with things that add no value to the ISO compliance project!!


Just yesterday, I have developed an idea and I would like to ask you and all experts if you agree.

One of the big and important departments "within the operation unit" has all that you have said well documented and in place and I think this due to the fact that they have a very good consulting company that runs most of the activities they have. So I thought what if we go for certification on this department level as a pilot and see if we are successful we can then generalize it. Is it ok to go for certification on this level? would CB grant a certificate for it?

Again, the main reason I want to take the certificate is to:
1- Get the buy in.
2- Get the budget/fund and support we need for the certification from this department, because if they are convinced with my idea, they want to be the first to make it to the ISO ahead of other departments.
3- if we are successful with them, everybody else will strive for the same.
4- Once everybody is on board, other projects will follow for improvements.

Please tell me if you agree with this idea or not?and why?

Sure, I agree with the tactic of reinforcing strength for the reasons you have stated. Before certifying your system within a narrower scope, consider this:

A. Audit the system yourself so you know that it conforms to ISO 9001 (especially clause 5.1) before asking the registrar to verify conformity (to retain the confidence of your auditor).
B. Recognize that the enduring prize is a management system that enables the organization to fulfill its goals not certification (to remind everyone of the purpose beyond certification).
C. Design your system's architecture and document coding scheme (so all the parts will together as the system's scope expands).

Obviously, you will not use the registrar as an alternative to committed top management.

 

[batman1056]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

QualityKey,


Start by analyzing how your organization converts customer needs into cash. Document the results of this analysis preferably using a deployment or swimlane flowchart at the level of your organization, its customers and suppliers.
.

John - quick question - IF I was a non for profit or a public sector organisation whos core objectives is not cash and profit, would I need to look at this from a customer satisfaction - e.g. analyze what the core services are of the organisations and what the customers expectations or of these services?

 

[John Broomfield]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

John - quick question - IF I was a non for profit or a public sector organisation whos core objectives is not cash and profit, would I need to look at this from a customer satisfaction - e.g. analyze what the core services are of the organisations and what the customers expectations or of these services?

Thanks for the question.

Yes, public sector and nonprofit organizations may analyze their core process from customer needs to satisfied customers but we advise them to continue their analysis to include "ongoing funding". This can be difficult for nonprofits whose vision is to eliminate the need for their services. We advise them still to include processes for accounts receiveable and accounts payable to assure their donors of their fiduciary controls.

Money counts even in public sector and nonprofit organizations but it is not the measure of success that it is for companies.

 

[batman1056]

Re: Where to Start to Implement ISO9001?

JOhn - correct money does count, I can probably link funding to core services, but in the situation of departments like HR, Strategy, Accounts and Payrol, and in some cases IT - they are in essence operational support services whose budgets are created to allow those teams to provide operational support (except in the case where internal SLAs are used ).

I was thinking about this today, from an Accounts perspective, the inputs would be expenditure information from departments, the process would be the checking, formation and production of management accounts, the output would be a corporate report. - from this high level objective, I could then define and create streamlined work packages for core functions within this high level process - please stop me if I am way off target.

I have been challenged this year with the defining of the core principles of ISO9001 so they can be used in 14001 (which I also have to do), 27001 and 18001 (which belong to other sections). In order to get the buy-in I first of all have to prove the business case - I think I will do this by mapping the high level departments, with sections, showing inputs (see accounts) and outputs on a simple flow chart - I could then highlight possible areas of development/improvement through the utilisation of ISO9001 (example business continuity).

Sorry - off track a little - my statement - funding can be mapped to deliverable departments who provide core services to the public - funding is awarded or applications made for funding based upon the perceived or future service needs - the measurement of success is normally thought increased satisfaction or use of the services.
I have grouped the core "services" into the following:
Internal supplier - Internal Customer
Internal supplier - front facing customer (job public)
Internal supplier - external stakeholders (including funding)
External supplier (as above 3)
In addition I have identified "corporate health elements" - these are normally related to sickness days etc. elements which are not owned by single sections or individuals but the who organisation may influence or impact on - still have not got my head around mapping this yet.

So.... Am I on track?