Which is better for our company between APQP and TS 16949?

[yundm]

The direct goal of our organization is to pass audit of TS 16949.
We do project according to APQP for a reference.
I think that APQP need more documents to manage than TS 16949.
For example, when make prototype, we must make control plan according to APQP, but need only when customer require in TS 16949.
There is also no need to do PPAP in TS 16949.
Which is better for our company between APQP and TS16949?
What will happen if we do thing only according to TS 16949 and not do additional thing in APQP.
Is there any risk?
Is there possible that one customer need one organization to do every thing according to APQP even if this organization has past audit of TS 16949?

 

[Wes Bucey]

Most of us agree on this point:
regardless of any "Standard" or Quality tool, the organization must first create a business process which benefits the organization.

If we use a Standard (such as TS16949) as an outline for our business process (perhaps because it is manadated by customers), we can ALWAYS add or include processes which benefit our organization by making it more consistent in operation processes whether the customer asks for the process or not. The benefit may simply be increased efficiency in doing processes and making documentation the same way every time instead of introducing an element of confusion among workers as to which process should be included.

What will happen if we do thing only according to TS 16949 and not do additional thing in APQP.

I don't know? Will your product be affected? If not, there may be nothing happening which will affect your organization.

Is there any risk?

The only risk is whether your empoloyees get confused by adding or subtracting processes.

Is there possible that one customer need one organization to do every thing according to APQP even if this organization has past audit of TS 16949?

There's always a possibility. You have to evaluate your customer base to determine the PROBABILITY.

 

[yundm]

There's always a possibility. You have to evaluate your customer base to determine the PROBABILITY.

Thank you very much.
Now my question is:
Why there is such possibility?
Is there not enough to pass audit of TS 16949.

Does "the customer-specific requirements" mentioned in TS 16949 include "doing everything according to APQP" if the customer require even if the APQP is a reference manual not a standard?
If so, can I think that:
We would be better to do our work according to APQP in order to both pass audit of TS 16949 and satisfy some potential customers about APQP.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Thank you very much.
Now my question is:
Why there is such possibility?
Is there not enough to pass audit of TS 16949.

The whole point of modern Quality Management Standards is for the organization to be responsive to customer requirements, regardless if the requirements are more or less stringent than the Standard.

Does "the customer-specific requirements" mentioned in TS 16949 include "doing everything according to APQP" if the customer require even if the APQP is a reference manual not a standard?

That's exactly what it means.

If so, can I think that:
We would be better to do our work according to APQP in order to both pass audit of TS 16949 and satisfy some potential customers about APQP.

Most of us would probably agree with you in terms of your product making processes. However, there are some specific provisions in TS16949 different from APQP (Advanced Product Quality Planning) you have to be sure you cover. You will come across these in your preliminary review before your TS16949 audit.

 

[D.Scott]

Yundm, Welcome to the Cove. I would like to add to what Wes is saying by pointing out that PPAP is, if you are dealing with US auto manufacturers, required by TS16949. You will not find it named as such but it is referred to as "part approval process" see 7.3.6.3.

TS 16949 certification will serve as your base for your quality system and all things stated in the standard must be followed in order to maintain your system. APQP is a part of the overall system and should be used whenever new products and processes are introduced to your company. I don't see it as a choice as to which is better for your company. If you are TS 16949 certified and supply one of the "Big 3", you MUST also use APQP (because the APQP Manual becomes a customer requirement). Even if you don't supply the "Big 3", you still need some sort of APQP even if you don't follow the Manual.

I don't think you can follow one and not the other.

Dave

 

[Howard Atkins]

I don't think you can follow one and not the other.

Dave

Welcome also from me.

As I see it APQP is an integral part of ISO/TS.
You cannot pass the audit with out working with a system that has Quality Planning
The standard requires all the PPAP documents, Control plan, FMEA, flow chart, MSA etc.
APQP is just one name for Quality planning.
You can implement APQP with out TS but not TS without APQP