Which items require Calibration?

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#11
If you visited the Company I work for you would see a lot of air/nitrogen/oxygen pressure regulators and bourdon gauges on the wall as well as shelves of air and water rotameters. These are used for setting up pressure switches and flow rates on machines which we sell to customers in the semiconductor process gas treatment field. An external auditor has said that I must get all these gauges and rotameters calibrated. However, some regulators and gauges are only used to apply pneumatic power to a block to operate valves - no measurement or reading is recorded in this instance. You might set the pressure to approx. 4 bar on the wall for instance and that would be good enough. I know you could argue that I don't know if it really is 4 bar if I haven't had the gauge calibrated for 10 years but that's part of an on going argument which I'm embroiled in. I agree that some gauges and rotameters do need calibrating because I record or observe a reading from them. Those which don't you could argue don't need calibration. Another instance is where I need to provide a purge to something through a flowmeter - basically to pass a gas flow through something to get rid of any remnants of a previous gas or to keep things moving in a pipeline to stop condensation of particulates blocking the line. You could argue that no calibration is required here, just a nitogen supply of about the right value. In fact there are FOR INDICATION ONLY stickers you can buy to apply to intruments used in cases like this. I wonder if anyone else has experience of this problem as people often ask me why I am calibrating something.

Thanks

Gerald Curling (Gerald631) Bristol UK:(
Hi Gerald.
Just an other way of looking at your question ~~~
All those stuff you mention are going as a part of your product to your customer. Is this correct ?
So you buy all these gauges as a part of your purchase to install on your equipment that you supply to your customer.
1. All the gauges that you purchase perhaps would come with a factory calibration and certificate if you so insist in your purchasing information (may be at additional cost). This will meet your requirement and you can give your customer the same calibration certificate along with your equipment documents and identify them in the block diagram perhaps.
2. You can decide which of those gauges needs calibration for the effective working of your equipment and cover this information in your equipment details that you provide to customer prior to their purchase order on you. You could provide them with calibration certificates of those few vital gauges again which is provided to you by the gauge manufacturer. In case your customer desires all gauges on the equipment to have a valid calibration, you can still provide them (may be at additional cost)
 
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G

Gerald631

#12
Somashekar

Thanks for your reply. The gauges and flowmeters I'm talking about are used as in-house test equipment, not deliverable items to a customer. It is this test equipment that needs calibrating. However, you've now asked another interesting question about calibration of gauges and flowmeters mounted on equipment which is then sold to a customer. When I look at these items in our stores I don't see any calibration certificates enclosed with them so I'm not sure how this works exactly. As you say, getting them calibrated would incur an extra charge.

Yours

Gerald Curling, Bristol UK
 
G

Gerald631

#13
Brad M

I think I'm going round in circles as usual - I've been mulling over what we discussed previously. I'm trying to think of an instance where I would look at a gauge or display and say to myself that the reading doesn't matter ie. I don't care about what the indication is. The trouble is I can't actually think of one - there'd be no point having a gauge or display if I wasn't fussed about the indication. Even my previous argument about providing a pneumatic block with about enough pressure so it can operate doesn't stand up - if the block needs 4 bar then giving it 0.5 bar is no use. So I would need some confidence that the gauge is accurate enough for the job and that means calibrating it.

Yours

Gerald Curling, Bristol UK
 

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#14
Brad M

I think I'm going round in circles as usual - I've been mulling over what we discussed previously. I'm trying to think of an instance where I would look at a gauge or display and say to myself that the reading doesn't matter ie. I don't care about what the indication is. The trouble is I can't actually think of one - there'd be no point having a gauge or display if I wasn't fussed about the indication. Even my previous argument about providing a pneumatic block with about enough pressure so it can operate doesn't stand up - if the block needs 4 bar then giving it 0.5 bar is no use. So I would need some confidence that the gauge is accurate enough for the job and that means calibrating it.

Yours

Gerald Curling, Bristol UK
I guess that then leaves you with the extent of calibration - or does it just require checking. An example being tape measures in many industries. Steel tapes are not going to stretch or contract by enough to require them to be calibrated back to International standards for most industries. However, we often subject them to a check to verify they are still in one piece, the hook is on the end and the tape is still legible.

You may be able to get 1 gauge calibrated externally and then use that as an 'in-house' master to do your own checks against if you feel the need.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#15
I guess that then leaves you with the extent of calibration - or does it just require checking. An example being tape measures in many industries. Steel tapes are not going to stretch or contract by enough to require them to be calibrated back to International standards for most industries. However, we often subject them to a check to verify they are still in one piece, the hook is on the end and the tape is still legible.

You may be able to get 1 gauge calibrated externally and then use that as an 'in-house' master to do your own checks against if you feel the need.
:agree1::yes::agree:

I would just add to Colin's post here, and state that you would want to assure that the externally calibrated gauge (s) should be a sufficient master for the rest. Depending on the different range, a couple of pressure standards with configurable pressure modules might serve you well. NOTE: I did mention two standards; so you have a backup when you primary is out, and to perform cross-verifications on your standards, if you think one of them might be questionable.

I'm typically not a big "hey, you can do it yourself" kind of guy, because there is typically more to it than meets the eye. But bourdon pressure gauges (as long as they are in the -28 P.S.I+200 P.S.I. range) are not too difficult to do. Mainly, because when they need adjustment, you can toss them in the trash and get another one, if you are so inclined.:D

Oh... and you can calculate the period between calibrations, and possibly extend it to save also.:)
 
I

Inunez

#16
I'm new to this field, but i know that the just because you dont depend on something for a reading does not mean you dont need to calibrate it. for example, a signal generator needs calibrating. the way i look at it is, i need to verify that this is still working properly. so when an auditor comes around asking that you calibrate something, he just wants to know that the equipment you are using is still working properly.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#17
The questions to ask are these: Does it make a measurement? If not, what happens if you remove it from the system?

I would argue that a pressure regulator requires calibration as it is intended to provide specific pressures.
 
A

Al Dyer

#18
I guess I just have to put in my two cents worth, but set your own standards, base it on empirical data and prove it to the customer and when needed, an auditor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stand Up and be proud of your system.

Al...
 
K

kgott

#19
This is a discussion that goes round and round in quality ciricles (note the pun). I once had an certification auditor wite and NCR saying that the data becomes part of the quality record therefore it has to be claibrated.

One way to deal with this is to get another guage calibrated then use that to compare or test the others against. That way you can extend the time frame between getting them all calibrated.

Eg; use the calibrated one to put pressure in a line at, say 4 bar, then devise a reasonalby accurate "feel" type measurement to know what 4 bar is. eg water out of xx mm diameter orifice squirts xx distance before touching the ground. Or, it knocks over a xyz target of xyz size at xyz distance. You then compare all the other regualtors to this test.

Of course this all depends on how large the range of acceptability is, i.e. (that-amount-of-pressure-in-the-line-is-ok-wether-its-4-bar-or-2, or 6-bar.).
 
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