Which kind of document is the Quality Policy?

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M

mirrorcrax

#34
IMO

once you find an application in the Management System which doesn't add value, i say throw it out.

The real question IMO should be:

- What value does Document Categorization add?
- What value is added by including document categorization in your document code?

I would say categorizing documents maybe slightly useful in very basic form, such as Guides and Records, wherein records are used forms or basically evidence of activities or information transfer and Guides are everything else including but not limited to policies, manuals, job descriptions, organizational structures.....etc.
The usefulness of this categorization is very limited, but there in easily figuring out the nature of the document in-case it's code is listed out in some form of communication, otherwise i don't see any other value added.

So my suggestion is, simplify and don't exaggerate with the controls without evaluating the value addition.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#35
I think we are over discussing the subject.
I mean we are saying the same thing over and over again.
I don't pretend. There were times when I had the same feeling but if you look at the big picture, this is a "People helping People" forum - much like a school. Daily, there are people who graduate from the ranks of being a novice or newbie as well as people joining in the ranks. Daily there are people joining in to help others as there are those that come in for help.

For those that had graduated, move on - help others if you like and if you had enough of doing so, sit back and let the next batch take over and chime in whenever you feel like it.

We are in a marathon that started since 1996. And still going strong.
 
A

amanbhai

#36
I don't pretend. There were times when I had the same feeling but if you look at the big picture, this is a "People helping People" forum - much like a school. Daily, there are people who graduate from the ranks of being a novice or newbie as well as people joining in the ranks. Daily there are people joining in to help others as there are those that come in for help.

For those that had graduated, move on - help others if you like and if you had enough of doing so, sit back and let the next batch take over and chime in whenever you feel like it.

We are in a marathon that started since 1996. And still going strong.
beautiful:agree:
 

JoCam

Trusted Information Resource
#37
Records are documents too. ISO 9001:2008 says, "Records are a special type of document..."



There's been a lot of discussion here regarding the so-called "documentation pyramid" and its various iterations. Yours is the first I've seen that makes "Process Flows" separate from SOPs--the two are not mutually exclusive in practice, nor is there a good reason I can think of to make the distinction. Both work instructions and SOPs may be expressed in flow diagrams.
Hi Jim,

Being new to Elsmar I failed to explain myself clearly. By a Level 2 document I mean stating the steps an Organisation takes to address a clause or process, which is often easier to illustrate using a flow diagram. Of course SOPS's and work instructions can take the form of flow diagrams, just so long as they detail how the steps shown in the Level 2 document are undertaken.

Sorry if I confused anybody,

Jo
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#38
Hi Jim,

Being new to Elsmar I failed to explain myself clearly. By a Level 2 document I mean stating the steps an Organisation takes to address a clause or process, which is often easier to illustrate using a flow diagram. Of course SOPS's and work instructions can take the form of flow diagrams, just so long as they detail how the steps shown in the Level 2 document are undertaken.

Sorry if I confused anybody,

Jo
If SOPs and work instructions are in graphical form, why is an additional "level 2" document necessary? My point was that the so-called pyramid is obsolescent because (in part) it often leads to unnecessary redundancy (too many documents). The quality manual (and the policy) is the top-level document, and everything else flows from it, and no good purpose is served by creating a hierarchy.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#39
Yep, stuff is just stuff or more stuff......I can't recall ever asking for Level this or Tier that during an audit...I pretty much say "What do you have that...?" and let it go from there.
 

JoCam

Trusted Information Resource
#40
Yep, stuff is just stuff or more stuff......I can't recall ever asking for Level this or Tier that during an audit...I pretty much say "What do you have that...?" and let it go from there.
This thread proves how most standards enable management systems to be implemented and maintained to suit. I have found that people find it easier to first see a document that illustrates what is to be done and when, before getting into the details of how exactly to perform each step. It really is a matter of what works best for your Organisation.
 
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