Which of these are Processes and should have Process Maps and why?

[Patricia Ravanello]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

On another thread (or several) there has been some disagreement about what a process is. Perhaps covers could take part in a poll as to which of the "processes" listed is significant and their justification. I'll let the voting start and then give my vote.

Paul,
If your talking about the processes which need to be identified in response to 4.1 a and b, then those processes, for most companies, are as follows :

1 - System-oriented Processes

a) SOP-0001 Internal Audit
b) SOP-0002 Control of Documents and Records​

2 - Management-oriented Processes

a) SOP-0003 Business Planning and Management Review
b) SOP-0004 Monitoring, Measurement and Analysis
c) SOP-0005 Corrective & Preventive Action and Continual Improvement​

3 - Support-oriented Processes

a) SOP-0006 Employee Competence, Empowerment and Motivation
b) SOP-0007 Control of Monitoring and Measuring Devices
c) SOP-0008 Purchasing and Materials Management
d) SOP-0009 Infrastructure & Production Support​

4 - Customer-oriented Processes

a) SOP-0010 Product Realization
b) SOP-0011 Change Control
c) SOP-0012 Control of Non-Conforming Product & Materials​

These may be referred to as the Key Business or Management Operating SYSTEM processes.. (They represent the "Procedural" level of your Operating System Documentation). The way you vizualize their sequence and interaction could be referred to as your Business/Management Operating System MODEL.

The sequence of events in any of these SOPs is captured in the FLOW CHART of that SOP, as in the attached Flow Chart of SOP-0001 Internal Audits. The subordinate processes identified within the Procedural Flow Chart are detailed in Work Instructions (which may or may not be flow charted also, depending on your preference and resources).

The difference is that the Procedure is a MACRO Process and the Work Instruction is a MICRO process. Every Work Instruction in your System should have a parent "Procedure" to which it belongs, and where it is referenced.

That's what this "process mapping" is all about.
All other organizational processes are subordinate to these 12 (or 15, or whatever) , and would be captured in or referred to in the Flow Charts of these 12 KEY OPERATING SYSTEM processes.

The secret to a successful system is in the initial identification and differentiation of the System Document levels.

I think that the question that you pose is ambiguous.

Patricia Ravanello

 

[RickT]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Paul,
If your talking about the processes which need to be identified in response to 4.1 a and b, then those processes, for most companies, are as follows :

1 - System-oriented Processes

a) SOP-0001 Internal Audit
b) SOP-0002 Control of Documents and Records​

2 - Management-oriented Processes

a) SOP-0003 Business Planning and Management Review
b) SOP-0004 Monitoring, Measurement and Analysis
c) SOP-0005 Corrective & Preventive Action and Continual Improvement​

3 - Support-oriented Processes

a) SOP-0006 Employee Competence, Empowerment and Motivation
b) SOP-0007 Control of Monitoring and Measuring Devices
c) SOP-0008 Purchasing and Materials Management
d) SOP-0009 Infrastructure & Production Support​

4 - Customer-oriented Processes

a) SOP-0010 Product Realization
b) SOP-0011 Change Control
c) SOP-0012 Control of Non-Conforming Product & Materials​

These may be referred to as the Key Business or Management Operating SYSTEM processes.. (They represent the "Procedural" level of your Operating System Documentation). The way you vizualize their sequence and interaction could be referred to as your Business/Management Operating System MODEL.

The sequence of events in any of these SOPs is captured in the FLOW CHART of that SOP, as in the attached Flow Chart of SOP-0001 Internal Audits. The subordinate processes identified within the Procedural Flow Chart are detailed in Work Instructions (which may or may not be flow charted also, depending on your preference and resources).

The difference is that the Procedure is a MACRO Process and the Work Instruction is a MICRO process. Every Work Instruction in your System should have a parent "Procedure" to which it belongs, and where it is referenced.

That's what this "process mapping" is all about.
All other organizational processes are subordinate to these 12 (or 15, or whatever) , and would be captured in or referred to in the Flow Charts of these 12 KEY OPERATING SYSTEM processes.

The secret to a successful system is in the initial identification and differentiation of the System Document levels.

I think that the question that you pose is ambiguous.

Patricia Ravanello

Thank you Patricia, well said !!
I'm curious to hear/read you comment about how one should deal with the communication process. Although it is seldom portrayed as a "formal" process, if it is not effective it can wreak havoc in a QMS and/or organization.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Thanks to all who have voted so far. Having kept my head down for a day I have now posted my votes (available for all to see). As promised here is my significant processes list and reasoning:

• Business planning - probably the most difficult to describe (and map)
• Satisfying customer orders - this is the end - to - end core process describing how an organization captures customer orders and plans, produces and fulfils those orders
• Change management - this covers the setting up of new systems either because the organization has started doing something new or has changed its way of doing something
• Introducing new products - a customer comes along with a new need or the design people have an idea for a new product this is the process for dfelivering these products / services

and the ones that didn't make it into the top 4:

• Contract review - part of the "satisfying customer orders" process
• IT support - part of a number of bigger processes for a) maintaining existing equipment, b) managing data, c) change management
• Document control - part of change management
• Calibration - part of maintenance of existing equipment and purchasing
• The annual budget - part of business planning
• Customer satisfaction survey - part of monitoring and measuring of current performance
• Management responsibility - doesn't exist outside ISO. Responsibility & authority is all part of a process for human resources, particularly competence
• SPC - another part of monitoring and measuring of current performance and may form part of introducing new products / change management
• E-mailing our brochures - part of customer communications, part of obtaining new customers, part of external communications
• Managing design changes - part of change management

To the questions:

• This isn't me against Helmut. It may be me against the rest of the world
• There is a point. ISO 9001 is supposed to be a quality standard. We are the key users of ISO. If we don't understand whether a process is a process or whether it is worthy of recording / flowcharting / measuring then who else will?
• This is a dialogue. I may be abrupt but I want understanding to be better - if that is mine or everyone else's
• To go back to the ISO definition of "transform inputs into outputs" is to miss the point. There are some things that are significant and important to control and need highlighting on a "process map" there are others that need less management

 

[michellemmm]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Thanks to all who have voted so far. Having kept my head down for a day I have now posted my votes (available for all to see). As promised here is my significant processes list and reasoning:

• Business planning - probably the most difficult to describe (and map) <SNIP>

Paul,
I want to thank you for starting a thought provoking thread. I think change from flow chart and activity management mind set that overlaps check list mentality/conformance monitoring to process management through performance management has not been fully embraced.

My question is why do you say business planning is difficult to describe and map?

 

[Randy]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Making a pot of Tea is a process

Boiling an egg is a process

Driving a car is a process

Drinking a glass of water is a process

Going potty is a process

Developing a procedure is a process


Everything we do or that gets done can be defined as a process....

 

[AndyN]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Making a pot of Tea is a process

Boiling an egg is a process

Driving a car is a process

Drinking a glass of water is a process

Going potty is a process

Developing a procedure is a process


Everything we do or that gets done can be defined as a process....

Randy, it can, agreed..................but should it? I don't agree, for example, with your list. Without promulgating bathroom humo(u)r, 'going potty' isn't a process!

 

[somerqc]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Andy,

Either you have forgotten or never have experienced a small child having trouble going to the bathroom. Trust me...it is a process!

Input - electrical impulses telling brain that muscular contraction required
things happen
Output - happy kid.

 

[Patricia Ravanello]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

On another thread (or several) there has been some disagreement about what a process is. Perhaps covers could take part in a poll as to which of the "processes" listed is significant and their justification. I'll let the voting start and then give my vote.

Paul,

I don't think people know what "Process Map" you're talking about, hence the debate about what is "significant".

A process which is significant at a Work Instruction level, may not be significant or even referenced at the Procedural level.

This discussion is going nowhere.

Patricia Ravanello

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

....This isn't me against Helmut. It may be me against the rest of the world

Oh, c'mon, Paul. You and I haven't had a good go 'round for a long time ...


Actually, I think the comments in your reply make some good points. I agree with all the comments, and agree all the things in the poll are important activities. But, how you slice and categorize some of them is different than I. So, there were a lot of items on the list that I did not vote for, because I would class them as sub-processes rather than full processes. Another company might slice them along different lines.

I really like the fact that ISO allows that tailored approach this time, rather than the one-size-fits-all approach of the 20 elements. We outgrew that.

However, with the freedom comes the responsibility to actually understand the concept of what process approach is. Which of course is your main point. I agree with that. But, we have to leave room for different folks to slice it along different lines, as long as it is still effective.

However, since there is so much confusion, I do suggest understanding which are the main, core, key, customer-oriented processes, as opposed to the supporting and administrative processes, helps newbies to do cleaner implementations.

A lot of the examples we are asked to review clearly show the team got bogged down in the exercise of flowcharting, and lost sight of the processes themselves.

Also, I think people need to remember that processes have a hierarchy, almost like chemistry. The standards do not require it, but it helps to understand it:

• Processes contain significant subroutines, (subprocesses).
• Subprocesses contain sub-subprocesses.
• This drills down to individual interactions (transactions).

Failures occur when one of these transactions fail to connect. When someone misses one of these steps, it can lead to a failure. The process didn't actually fail, one of the transactions failed.

Watching a sports game helps to model how process interactions and transactions work. Lots of interactions and transactions - and they frequently fail and recover, in realtime.

Understanding how processes work goes a long way toward defining them in a manner that is beneficial to improving the organization.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: Which of these are processes and why?

Andy,

Either you have forgotten or never have experienced a small child having trouble going to the bathroom. Trust me...it is a process!

Input - electrical impulses telling brain that muscular contraction required
things happen
Output - happy kid.

Cute point, but in the overall scheme of how your House (organization) operates, would you class that as a full process? Or is it better defined as a sub-process, under something like a "Bathroom Process?" Do you really want to elevate it to a full process spot on the household [high level] process map?

It helps to understand there are different levels in processes, just like in an outline. Defining the right level to place it at helps the process maps flow cleaner.