Which registrars require suppliers to have a TS 16949 requirements waiver?

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Leader
Super Moderator
#1
This can't be coincidence...

Attached is just one of three requests from three different suppliers that I've received. The exact same "Sample Form Letter" is enclosed in all three requests and the wording in the request letter is almost the same thing - specifically that their registrar told them they had to have these waivers on file for their non-automotive customers who don't require some TS requirements such as PPAPs.

I haven't worked in a QS or TS environment in a long time - what's up with this? Is this really a TS requirement?
 

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Jim Wynne

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#2
Cari Spears said:
This can't be coincidence...

Attached is just one of three requests from three different suppliers that I've received. The exact same "Sample Form Letter" is enclosed in all three requests and the wording in the request letter is almost the same thing - specifically that their registrar told them they had to have these waivers on file for their non-automotive customers who don't require some TS requirements such as PPAPs.

I haven't worked in a QS or TS environment in a long time - what's up with this? Is this really a TS requirement?
There is no direct requirement for PPAP in 16949; it's a customer-specific requirement. In the absence of a documented customer requirement for it, the registrar shouldn't be asking for waivers to be on file.
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Leader
Super Moderator
#3
That's what I thought. I have half a mind to reply to them all that they should tell their registrar that they determine these requirements at contract review and that they should not bother any customers with this waiver.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#4
JSW05 said:
There is no direct requirement for PPAP in 16949; it's a customer-specific requirement. In the absence of a documented customer requirement for it, the registrar shouldn't be asking for waivers to be on file.

I agree. For example, a Healthcare customer should not be required to provide waivers against an automotive requirement, and an automotive customer should not be required to provide waivers against a healthcare requirement. The fact they are not IN that respective industry would already be an indication those requirements would not apply.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#5
Cari Spears said:
This can't be coincidence...

Attached is just one of three requests from three different suppliers that I've received. The exact same "Sample Form Letter" is enclosed in all three requests and the wording in the request letter is almost the same thing - specifically that their registrar told them they had to have these waivers on file for their non-automotive customers who don't require some TS requirements such as PPAPs.

I haven't worked in a QS or TS environment in a long time - what's up with this? Is this really a TS requirement?

This is a leftover opinion from the QS-9000 days, which required waivers if PPAP was not required (but inferred only of automotive customers.

TS cl 7.3.6.3 does not mention waivers:

"[FONT=Arial,Bold]7.3.6.3 Product approval process[/FONT]
The organization shall conform to a product and manufacturing process approval procedure recognized by the customer.
This product and manufacturing process approval procedure shall also be applied to suppliers."

That's all it says folks. It's not QS anymore. Any other requirements would be up to the PPAP book (if applicable) or to the individual customers.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#6
Cari Spears said:
That's what I thought. I have half a mind to reply to them all that they should tell their registrar that they determine these requirements at contract review and that they should not bother any customers with this waiver.
At the least I'd inform them of the fact that they're asking for evidence of compliance to requirements that don't exist, and ask them to please read the standard before sending out similar requests.
 
L

Laura M

#7
Rather than a waiver, wouldn't it be more important to show the supplier where you stated your requirements? What are your "product and manufacturing process approval procedure" - if its stated at contract review then they have their 'waiver.'
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#8
Laura M said:
Rather than a waiver, wouldn't it be more important to show the supplier where you stated your requirements? What are your "product and manufacturing process approval procedure" - if its stated at contract review then they have their 'waiver.'
:agree1: Exactly. What the people who send out these letters are unwittingly (and the word is used advisedly) saying is, "Please help us to plug the gaping hole in our contract review process."
 
L

Laura M

#9
...or back to Cari - were the requirements stated anywhere in your contract or purchase order?
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Leader
Super Moderator
#10
No, Laura - not at all. I'm composing a standard reply which states pretty much what I said in my post (#3) above - but a little more tactful.:tg: The fact that the sample letter to be typed on my letterhead is exactly the same letter from all three vendors leaves me to wonder who this registrar is.

I think I'll request a copy of their registration certificates and find out.

We are currently transitioning from ISO9001:2000 to AS9100B - if our contract states AS9102 FAI is required, the job gets flagged and routed to me - if not, the job hits the floor and they get our standard inspection packet. I'll be darned if I'm going to bother every non-aerospace customer we have for a flippin' waiver for First Article Inspection!!!

Thanks for the input everyone!:agree:
 
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