Who does most of your inspection - QC or Production

[gszekely]

In my opinion it doesn't matter, where the QC belongs or is done by which department. I have seen pros and cons for both situation. If the QC belongs to Quality deartment, there is a tendency of overscrap, to be on "safety side" mostly from customer complaints point of view. If belogs to production, there is a pressure to push trough nonconforming parts to have better yields. I'm talking mostly about visual quality criteria, which I found to be most difficult to keep under controll. On the other hand, several years ago, starting a new technology, I was nominated QE for that department. There was a 100% visual inspection done by manufacturing department, and an acceptance sampling done by QC, before the parts were sent to the next process. Working very close with department leader, we were able to start up with a very good yield, without customer complaint for 3 years I was there. The key to "succes" was not Quality or manufacturing department, it was the common effort, cooperation, communication, and so on, as it is everywere.
Just my thoughts.

 

[qcman]

Machine operators do quality checks visual/gage every 15 minutes and the floor inspector does blueprint layouts as many times a shift as he can. 80% of our defects can be caught visually and I am leaning toward having a roving inspector doing more visual than layout.

 

[easy-goin]

All of our CNC operators check certain dimensions (identified by quality) 100% (every part), inspectors handle all recieving, first piece (every operation) and final inspections. We also do a lot of "inprocess" CMM inspections, using DCC CMM's in which the operator runs the program. Also we use "real time SPC" both from the CMM's and manual gages.

 

[silentrunning]

Our production managers serve as the inspectors for their departments. We were having problems with results using this method until I instituted a program under ISO 9001,2000, 8.4, Analysis of Data. At our monthly meeting we have a chart showing which department had the most customer complaints and / or rejects. This turned out to be great motovation.

 

[SteelMaiden]

Our production managers serve as the inspectors for their departments. We were having problems with results using this method until I instituted a program under ISO 9001,2000, 8.4, Analysis of Data. At our monthly meeting we have a chart showing which department had the most customer complaints and / or rejects. This turned out to be great motovation.

imagine that!

 

[Paul F. Jackson]

Inspection results are prejudicial!

All inspections begin with a desired outcome to some degree and they are curtailed or expanded according to that prejudice. I witnessed this phenomenon during my years in SQA. The producer’s inspection seeks to validate the question “is this OK?” affirmatively and the consumer’s inspection seeks to discover “what is wrong with this?”

Jennifer points out that a strong or weak twist on a micrometer will change the outcome on an inspector’s reading of a dimension. I’ve witnessed that a form deviation from a DCC coordinate measuring machine “best fit” circle solution….ignored unintentionally due to the prejudice of the desired outcome…or obscured “by expedient design” in limiting the probed points can support the author of the program’s desired outcome.

There is only one truth but it is difficult to discern with limited knowledge. All inspections draw finite conclusions from an infinite set of points and prejudice fills in the blanks. If all parts were perfectly rigid over time, not subject to thermal expansion, or not influenced by any other environmental forces, then the truth might be a little more stable.

I have five children ‘grown now’ but when they were young and mischievous I remember directing them to tell me “What is Billy going to tell me that happened?” Their answer was far closer to the truth than when I asked “Tell me what happened?”

Since this is an argument between two facets of the producer’s inspection I think that the struggle is a good thing… it is a check for balance and it helps all to guard their prejudice in so doing they both get closer to the truth.

You cannot proof-read your own work and proof-readers are not infallible!

Paul F. Jackson

 

[JRKH]

Very well put Paul and sooo true. I have seen it also but never saw it better expressed.

In our case it is a case of an ongoing batte between the production department who tend to consider their job as getting a machine set-up and approved and then turning further inspection over to "QC".
We have tried to explain to them that the Quality Department cannot "control quality" because we cannot be everywhere at once.

The purpose of my question was to gather some data that our incoming Quality manager can use to convince upper management and production that, in the majority of companies production does indeed do most inspections. Thus freeing up quality for more difficult and helpful tasks.

James

 

[Jen Kirley]

Very well put Paul and sooo true. I have seen it also but never saw it better expressed.

In our case it is a case of an ongoing batte between the production department who tend to consider their job as getting a machine set-up and approved and then turning further inspection over to "QC".
We have tried to explain to them that the Quality Department cannot "control quality" because we cannot be everywhere at once.

The purpose of my question was to gather some data that our incoming Quality manager can use to convince upper management and production that, in the majority of companies production does indeed do most inspections. Thus freeing up quality for more difficult and helpful tasks.

James

Besides the Quality Department, who is trying to convince these people that they have a stake in quality? What role does top management play in making people feel like they have a connection to the outcome, thus it's in their interest to monitor the process themselves?

 

[Russ]

Production does maybe 75% of our inspections. QA does do Final Audit, In-Process inspection when the part is going to an outside vendor for a process, and Incoming inspection when we have the part blanked by a vendor. QA also does what we cal APQP inspections on "first run" parts to make sure they didn't miss something and inspections prompted by an Alert sheet we use when we want to look at a process the next time that particular part is run. I must say that this system is working well!

 

[JRKH]

Production does maybe 75% of our inspections. QA does do Final Audit, In-Process inspection when the part is going to an outside vendor for a process, and Incoming inspection when we have the part blanked by a vendor. QA also does what we cal APQP inspections on "first run" parts to make sure they didn't miss something and inspections prompted by an Alert sheet we use when we want to look at a process the next time that particular part is run. I must say that this system is working well!

This sounds very close to what we want to institute here.

Right now quality does most FAI's and as many in process as we can. Production does do some in process inspections but it usually takes a particularly tricky or long running job to get them seriously involved.

James