Who exactly needs "ISO Training" in a company?

Jaxter

Involved In Discussions
#1
My registar auditor, at the pre-assessment audit, suggested that all employees, top to bottom be "trained" in ISO. That they understood the relationship between the ISO 9001:2000 requirements, Quality Assurance Manual, Quality Procedures Manual, Processes and Work Instructions.

It's understandable that Top Management needs to understand this information to a certain level, and as QM and Internal Auditor I should be the most educated, but our office staff, service and maintainence people?

He did go around asking questions like "Do you know your company's Quality Policy," which they did not.

In referencing 6.2.2, I interpreted that to mean that they be trained in the area of expertise that they provide in the service to the company and customers, not ISO.

So much of subjective interpretation by the registars are very confusing and discerning for new QM's, no matter how knowledgable or educated we are. There should be a "ISO for Dummies" books that simplifies the regulations and details what a registar/auditor can and cannot request.

Thank the Lord for this forum! Any comments???

:frust: :confused: but :cool:
 
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D

David DeLong

#2
Re: Who exactly needs "training" in a company?

Yes it is subjective and too many companies are afraid to challenge the 3rd party auditors. I would challenge the subjective training requirements as your outlined. Where does it state this in ISO 9000? Ask the 3rd party auditor to show you the section and clause.

All personnel in the company require Quality Policy training. There is no problem there.

The next part is a bit subjective but I had never had a problem with it in the companies that I assisted in ISO or TS. All personnel handling the product requires documented job training. This eliminates supervision, salaried service groups and top management. Of course the training matrix includes all personnel but the job training was specific to the type of work one performs.

All internal Auditors and also personnel who perform calibration duties require formal training.

That is it as far as I am concerned. Is it beneficial to train management on the benefits of ISO? Sure but you pick the group. It is not up to the 3rd party auditor.

A few years ago, I helped a small company in Toronto implement ISO. I was there when the 3rd party came in to perform the audit but it wasn't my show. I keep my mouth shut except when the Auditor started to ask QS/TS questions not covered in ISO requirements. You must have the courage to challenge them otherwise it could cost your company lots of $$$.
 
J

jkittle

#3
Re: Who exactly needs "training" in a company?

All your staff should know the system and how they fit into the quality system. Maintenance people are responsible for your equipment. What if it does not run efficiently, would this affect your delivery to your customer? Same for the office people. I'm sure someone in the office is responsible for account payables. If they pay your suppliers late, at some point this may delay raw material to your company affecting delivery performance to your customers.

We all play a part in meeting the customer’s expectations and our own business objectives
 
B

Britman - 2012

#4
Re: Who exactly needs "training" in a company?

In referencing 6.2.2, I interpreted that to mean that they be trained in the area of expertise that they provide in the service to the company and customers, not ISO.
Our auditor looked at the Quality Policy, stating a referance to ISO should be included before his next visit!

Reply - WHY! - subject closed.:frust:
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#5
Re: Who exactly needs "training" in a company?

One aspect that is often over looked. I'll ee if I can find the presentation and post it, but it is traing on being audited.

I used to work in military manufacturing so I was used to being audited. When I started working for commercial companies I found the employees often had no idea how to interact with the auditor. Sooooo.... I always did a training course on the basics of ISO 9001 and spoke with the employees about how to interact with auditors (You can't run and you can't hide).

I used to print up cards (and, in the early days I even had them laminated).

Example:





These are old, aimed at the last version of ISO 9001, but they may give you some ideas. I'd post a bunch of them but I've packed most of that stuff away or thrown it out.

These are short wallet cards. Many places, like Motorola, Borg-Warner and Harley, we made up a small 4 page (fold over) booklet with more specifics.

Summary: My input here is to say don't forget to evaluate people as to their experience with auditors. If they're not used to being audited, you can save a lot of time and trouble by giving them some pointers on how to communicate with auditors.

And if you hand out Quality Policy cards, don't forget they need a revision date.
 
D

David DeLong

#6
Re: Who exactly needs "training" in a company?

Marc:

I do agree with you. Each and every company that I helped in ISO/QS or TS, I made sure that each responsible person was trained in how to perform during an audit.

I did a "dry audit" and I was extremely tough. In some cases, we had to stop the training audit since the person really didn't know what to do or where the objective evidence was located. This is a MUST on all companies who have never experienced a 3rd party audit.
 

Jaxter

Involved In Discussions
#7
Re: Who exactly needs "training" in a company?

Thanks for the input. Out team is trained and certified annually on those things required by regulatory governing bodies that monitor the company and required because of the services we provide. There's no problem there.

The "flash card" idea is great! I might have to borrow that one. Having everyone "orientated" to ISO and the companies involvement is an easy fix. IMO...it's all about to what "degree" of detail is needed. As an experience trainer, you always need to access the target audience and what information is required and develop from there.

I just needed feedback for the levels of "orientation/training" required as opposed to suggested opinions.

:thanx:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#8
I occassionally audit ISO based management systems and I can't remember the last time I asked someone what they know about ISO anything. Unless they (the system owners) mandate employee knowledge of ISO I couldn't care less about what they know. My focus is on what they know about "their" system and how it works, and not the "template" or "blueprint".
 
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