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Who has had a Transition Audit from TS 16949 to IATF 16949

John C. Abnet

Good day @GKknight27;
One of my prior companies (ISO 17025 registered lab) utilized CTS or other "collaborative testing service". This is is a great option for this. Based on the destructive testing you subscribe to (hardness, tensile, etc...) these companies periodically send you test parts/coupons upon which your organization performs the pertinent tests. Your organization then sends the results back to the collaborative service. The collaborative service reviews your organization's results and aggregates them with hundreds of other company's results and provides the aggregate results back to you. Hope this helps.

Be well.
We have had our audit in January as well. We had no majors and two minors, one of which was for a lab scope. You're pretty spot on with your comments and we are identifying deficiencies for future audits. However, we are now struggling with the MSA portion in preparation for our next re-cert audit (manpower, time, etc.) to perform studies as they should be. Anyone have any comments on how they are maintaining MSA studies for their control plan inspection methods?
Gagegirl, what are your concerns while doing MSA studies? This will help us to answer the question in better way. I hope you are not trying to do MSA of every individual gage.


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Hello Amit. We are performing MSA studies on production related gages by family and size (mics, plug gages, etc.) Where our concern lies is with the laboratory equipment for testing. Currently there is no MSA data for our equipment listed on laboratory scopes within our facility. I have mostly seen the accuracy statement (which they don't show) listed on the scopes. My further concern is that I would estimate that after review of the scope an external auditor, they will ask to see MSA data on all or selected test equipment. We have scales, ovens, burettes, ph testing (plating processes), acoustics testing equipment, as well as dimensional measurement items (easy). These items are also listed on the control plan. What is everyone's experience with this during an IATF audit. We've had our previous registrar for the past three years and he was our auditor to receive our current IATF cert. We switch to a new registrar in 2019 and don't know what to expect.
Gagegirl, I don't have any laboratory experience. But the IATF16949 standard doesn't mandate doing MSA studies of Measurement systems specified in laboratory scope.

For the measurement systems referenced in control plan, we are doing MSA of measurement systems used for measurement of product characteristics only.
And our auditor is fine with this approach.

In my experience, auditors generally go by MSA plan. Hardly any auditor asked by taking reference to control plan. But this depends on auditors approach. You should still comply with the requirements of standard (i.e. Clause, since auditors and their approach of auditing can change, but requirements will be the same.

Dan M

Involved In Discussions
It depends on the auditor. Our first auditor 6 years ago said we had to do gage studies on the gages listed within our lab
Scope, but did not care about the gages listed in the production control plan.

Our new auditor this year wrote a minor nonconformance because MSA studies were Not completed for gages listed on the control plan
It depends on the auditor. Our first auditor 6 years ago said we had to do gage studies on the gages listed within our lab
Scope, but did not care about the gages listed in the production control plan.

Our new auditor this year wrote a minor nonconformance because MSA studies were Not completed for gages listed on the control plan
For a while the requirement has been that msa studies are required on gages listed in the control plan.

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
This has always been the requirement since ISO/TS

Now though see the added bold Measurement systems analysis
Statistical studies shall be conducted to analyse the variation present in the results of each type of inspection, measurement, and test equipment system identified in the control plan. The analytical methods and acceptance criteria used shall conform to those in reference manuals on measurement
systems analysis.
Other analytical methods and acceptance criteria may be used if approved by the customer.
Records of customer acceptance of alternative methods shall be retained along with results from alternative measurement systems analysis (see Section
NOTE Prioritization of MSA studies should focus on critical or special product or process characteristics.
Always ask to see how the standard is written as in this case lab scope has and is irrelevant.
The non conformance MUST quote the requirement as shown above with a reference to the control plan in this case and it was impossible to write a valid non conformance as to lab scope and MSA. :bonk::bonk:


Starting to get Involved
I work at a company that has been very successful plastic injection molding, painting, and chrome plating for 30 years. They never attempted to be certified to any standard until now. I started here in January and have already successfully completed Stage 1 and Stage 2 audits at all 5 of our plants. There were good systems in place already, so I only had to make some procedures, do some training, internal audits, and management review. The audits were not too much different than the TS audits. Had some minor NC's that have been closed out. They were typical minor issues.

One thing that was different for me was the requirement for gage studies for all inspection, measurement, and test equipment called out in control plans. We ended up performing many assessor agreement analysis, for example on plating thickness, and thermal cycling testing - interpretations.

It also helped that I was familiar with our auditor. She was very thorough but fair.

Hi, our company is also a plastic injection company shall be audited on JUne 28 to 29. May I ask if what are some of your minor NCs? I am a bit worried since we are not that fully prepared.
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Starting to get Involved
For warranty management system:
If warranty is applicable to you, then whenever a customer claims for warranty, you should do analysis of the part on where the problem has occurred. If the part doesn't have any problem, you can call it as NTF (No Trouble Found), and you may not need to provide warranty for that part.

For MSA of hardness testing:
I would like to know first, for which purpose you do hardness test. Is it for production part or incoming part?

Thank you for your reply on warranty mgt. though i am struggling to make a documented procedure but I will try.


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