Who is entitled for TS16949:2002 Certification?

K

knight_sirk

Hi to all! :bigwave:

I have some queries regarding application for a TS Cert.:
1. Who is entitled for TS certification?
2. Do all Automotive Manufacturers are required and/or entitled to apply?
3. Is TS cert. only required for those with customer that requires for it?

Please refer any TS clause, rules, guidelines and sanctioned interpretations.

Sorry, confused here :biglaugh:

Since applying for TS cert. is very expensive, we have to be careful indicating/providing to the CB the details of manpower and any IPO's (support sites).

We already have the list of customers who are requiring us for the TS cert.
we just wanted to be sure (refered to any requirements).

Thank you in advance!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
knight_sirk said:
1. Who is entitled for TS certification?
Suppliers of services and manufactured products to automotive OEMs.
knight_sirk said:
2. Do all Automotive Manufacturers are required and/or entitled to apply?
No, only suppliers whose products or services are used by OEMs. If you're tier 2 or below, and your product or service isn't used in the form that you sell it by an OEM (a vehicle manufacturer) you're probably not eligible for registration to 16949, although you might be required to be registered to ISO 9001:2000.

knight_sirk said:
3. Is TS cert. only required for those with customer that requires for it?
It's possible, if your customer is confused about eligibility requirements, for your customer to ask for it when you're not eligible. In general though, it is only available to those suppliers whose customers require it.

knight_sirk said:
Please refer any TS clause, rules, guidelines and sanctioned interpretations.

Have a look in this thread http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=14425 where Icy Mountain was good enough to post a comprehensive list of reference materials.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Are you sure?

I thought only MANUFACTURING plants were eligible for TS certification. Are you sure service providers can attain TS certification?

I don't believe so.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Leader
Admin
JSW05 said:
Suppliers of services and manufactured products to automotive OEMs.
No, only suppliers whose products or services are used by OEMs. If you're tier 2 or below, and your product or service isn't used in the form that you sell it by an OEM (a vehicle manufacturer) you're probably not eligible for registration to 16949, although you might be required to be registered to ISO 9001:2000.

It's possible, if your customer is confused about eligibility requirements, for your customer to ask for it when you're not eligible. In general though, it is only available to those suppliers whose customers require it.


Have a look in this thread http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=14425 where Icy Mountain was good enough to post a comprehensive list of reference materials.

Jim, the standard says "this technical specification can be applied throughout the automotive supply chain" page 1. As long as the part is for an automotive application whatever tier you are you are entitled to register.
 

AndyN

Moved On
Gosh, you're good.......

Howard! There are lots of tier 2's and 3's being pushed to go ISO/TS by their tier 1 customers (doesn't always make sense). And services are in there.....I believe one of the criteria looked for, by the registrars, is that you have an automotive customer 'contract' for the product/service and that the customer requires ISO/TS compliance.

Andy
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Howard Atkins said:
Jim, the standard says "this technical specification can be applied throughout the automotive supply chain" page 1. As long as the part is for an automotive application whatever tier you are you are entitled to register.

I misspoke. At tier 2 or below, there are two basic criteria for eligibility: registration is required by tier 1, and actual manufacturing or value-added services are being performed. Distributors and independent design centers, for example, aren't qualified, but electroplaters are.
 
K

knight_sirk

Thank you very much for the response.

I guess the final decision for any Automotive Manufacturing Organization to apply for ISO/TS16949:2002 Certification depends on the decision of the Organization.

I have found some clause / FAQs to refer to on my queries:
From the Technical Specification (page1)
- This TS can be applied throughout the automotive supply chain.

Supported by TS FAQs (which org. can obtain Certification/Registration to ISO/TS16949:2002?)
- This Technical Specification is applicable to sites of the organization where production and/or service parts specified by the customer are manufactured.

"BUT" from the "Rules for Achieving IATF Recognition 2nd Ed. for TS, clause 1.7" states that,
- The scope of certification shall include all manufacturing meeting the applicability of ISO/TS16949:2002 supplied to customers subscribing to ISO/TS16949:2002.
And from the "Rules for Achieving Recognition 2nd Ed. FAQ's Number 3:
- A subscribing customer is any automotive customer of the organization that requires certification / compliance to ISO/TS 16949:2002 of its supply base.

Finally, if you refer to the 2nd paragraph of the "Rules for Achieving IATF Recognition 2nd Ed. for TS, clause 1.7" states that,
- The scope of certification may also include, at the decision of the organization , manufacturing meeting the applicability of ISO/TS 16949:2002 supplied to customers not subscribing to ISO/TS 16949.

So, there would be 2 choices applying for TS cert.
1. Apply for TS cert. required by any subscribing customer to ISO/TS16949.
2. Apply for TS cert. at the decision of the organization.

Since applying for TS cert. is very expensive, I think it is more practical to apply only for TS certification required by a subscribing customer to ISO/TS, considering the details of manpower and any IPO's (support sites).

And since, from the revised "Rules for Achieving IATF Recognition 2nd Ed. S.I. Number 6,”
The Certificate Content Requirements text of Rules 5.g. is deleted, meaning there will be no longer any Customers listed in the Certificate Appendix.

So, the TS Certificate may now reflect that the whole Organization is TS Certified, even your Organization apply only for a specific Subscribing Customer to ISO/TS.

Is my assessment correct?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
F

Frank Trott

The company that I work for is going for TS, but we have a problem with our certification body. We are a Tier 1 supplier into Ford PAG and currently are QS-9000 and Q1 approved. Our major product is fitted to vehicle as part of the OEM assembly process but removed as part of the pre-delivery checks. It carries an OEM part number and is fully specified through an Engineering Specification being controlled through full Q1 requirements. Our Certification Body are insisting that this product falls outside the scheme rules and have stated:
"The organisation needs to demonstrate that they are a manufacturer of production materials (ie. parts which end up in a vehicle “on the road”).

A component used for transit purposes would not fit into this category so that product would need to be considered as out of scope.

If they have no other eligible products, then they would not be able to achieve TS certification".

Do people agree with this interpretation of production materials or is there another interpretation available?
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Leader
Admin
Frank Trott said:
The company that I work for is going for TS, but we have a problem with our certification body. We are a Tier 1 supplier into Ford PAG and currently are QS-9000 and Q1 approved. Our major product is fitted to vehicle as part of the OEM assembly process but removed as part of the pre-delivery checks. It carries an OEM part number and is fully specified through an Engineering Specification being controlled through full Q1 requirements. Our Certification Body are insisting that this product falls outside the scheme rules and have stated:
"The organisation needs to demonstrate that they are a manufacturer of production materials (ie. parts which end up in a vehicle “on the road”).

A component used for transit purposes would not fit into this category so that product would need to be considered as out of scope.

If they have no other eligible products, then they would not be able to achieve TS certification".

Do people agree with this interpretation of production materials or is there another interpretation available?

Welcome to the cove with the sort of question that I like.
according to ISO/TS 16949:2002 Frequently Asked Questions (TS FAQs)

1. Applicability/Scope (Revised July 2003. Revisions in blue type)

Question: Which Organizations can obtain Certification/Registration to ISO/TS 16949:2002?



Answer: Any Organization in the Automotive Supply Chain meeting the criteria below can obtain Certification to ISO/TS 16949:2002

1. Scope 1.1 General
- This Technical Specification, in conjunction with ISO 9001:2000, defines the quality management system requirements for the design and development, production and, when relevant, installation and service of automotive-related products.
- This Technical Specification is applicable to sites of the organization where production and/or service parts specified by the customer are manufactured.

2. "Automotive" shall be understood as including the following:
- Cars, Trucks (Light, Medium and Heavy), Buses, Motorcycles

3. "Automotive" shall be understood to exclude the following:
- Industrial, Agricultural, Off-Highway (Mining, Forestry, Construction, etc.)


4. 3.1.11 "Site"
- Location at which value added manufacturing processes occur.

5. “Manufacturing”
- Process of making or fabricating:

· Production materials

· Production or service parts

· Assemblies, or

· Heat treating, welding, painting, plating, or other finishing services
As I understand this you are eligible
 
Top Bottom