Who is my customer? We only deal with the agent who sells our plastic resins

[wcsf - 2008]

I am a resin manufacturer and producing plastic resin for automotive application. We only deal with the agent and the agent will sell our resin to the injection moulders, and the moulded parts will be sold to the OEM. Looking into this, some of the CB said I am not eligible for TS, but some said OK.

Besides, from the above who is my customer, which I should obtain the CSR? Normally the agent will not have any CSR, as well as the moulders. If the moulder did not pass through the OE CSR, can I still be certified to TS? Urgent respond from this forum required. Thank You.

 

[Jonell]

Who do you sell to?

I'll take a stab at this one. Your customer is the company (or person) that buys the resin directly from you. So, if the agent is the one that is buying your resin, then he is your customer. As far as CSR's go, if the agent (or any customer for that matter) does not have any requirements, then ask them to say that in writing. This covers you for the TS. I do, however, find it hard to believe that there isn't a requirement for at least 100% on-time-delivery.

Jonell

 

[wcsf - 2008]

Thanks for your reply. In fact I meant they do not have the CSR. Of course, they have the requirement such as 100% OTD..etc.

Am I required to obtain the moulder CSR? as the agent has no authority to qualify the resin?? As I spoke to some CB here, I am getting different point of view, some say the agent is the customer and if they don;t have requirement, then it is OK, some say we need to get the moulder requirements as they are the one who qualify and use my product??? More and more confused.

 

[Jonell]

The agent is the one that you sell the product to. He is your customer.

We have a similar process where I work. We manufacture and sell a component to a customer, who only turns around and sells it to his customer. I only consider the company that we sell the component to as my customer. Our CB does not have a problem with that. Do you currently have a CB? If so, contact them, and confirm this.

Hope this helps!
Jonell

 

[qualitytrec]

Thanks for your reply. In fact I meant they do not have the CSR. Of course, they have the requirement such as 100% OTD..etc.

Am I required to obtain the moulder CSR? as the agent has no authority to qualify the resin?? As I spoke to some CB here, I am getting different point of view, some say the agent is the customer and if they don;t have requirement, then it is OK, some say we need to get the moulder requirements as they are the one who qualify and use my product??? More and more confused.

The agent is your customer. He is the molders supplier, as the molders supplier he sould pass their requirements down to you. If he does not pass the requirements on to you you should ask for them in my opinion because of the clause in 7.2.1 that states
"the orginization shall determine
B)requirements not stated by the customer but neccessary for specified or intended use, where known,"
But if your agent does not do this then all you need to do is supply what he asks for according to what you do know. Part of the purpose of the standard IMO is to cause companies to be proactive.
JMHO
Mark

 

[wcsf - 2008]

The agent is like a postman, they only convey moulder's material spec to us and we manufacture accordingly. They (agent) do not have any authority to qualify my material. So I think from business poitn of view, agent is my customer. But when come to CSR, I may need to survey the moulder directly. I spoken to a few CB, most of them said I hv to have moulder CSR.

But if I only go and survey my agent, I can quite sure that they will have no sepcific requirements (especially those in product approval process).

In addition, as bulk material supplier, previously in QS9000, I do not need to do MSA, PPAP...etc (Pls refer to PPAP manual). However as TS does not requires AIAG manual if I am not supplying to B-3, then should I still follow like QS9000 and don;t do MSA, FMEA...etc?????

 

[Sam]

The agent is your customer. There is no requirement for you to go beyond the agent and search for additional customer requirements. Your auditor is wrong in asking you to do so.
The agent works with the automotive customers and knows what their requirements are, if not he MAY not be in the business very long.

 

[haifeng]

The agent is like a postman, they only convey moulder's material spec to us and we manufacture accordingly. They (agent) do not have any authority to qualify my material. So I think from business poitn of view, agent is my customer. But when come to CSR, I may need to survey the moulder directly. I spoken to a few CB, most of them said I hv to have moulder CSR.

But if I only go and survey my agent, I can quite sure that they will have no sepcific requirements (especially those in product approval process).

In addition, as bulk material supplier, previously in QS9000, I do not need to do MSA, PPAP...etc (Pls refer to PPAP manual). However as TS does not requires AIAG manual if I am not supplying to B-3, then should I still follow like QS9000 and don;t do MSA, FMEA...etc?????

I agree with your idea, here u said agent is your customer. When come to CSR, I think there's some contract knowledge about the requirements confirmation. As the manuafacture and the seller (u sell your products to ur agent), u should do some market and technology investigation to validate your moulder's specification, then make an offer/quatation with your specification to your agency, maybe there's some more discussion needed by your agent with ur end customer, until the final specifiication and price will come to deal between u and ur agent. up to this step, your original specification investigated from market and technology has transfered into requirements between u and ur agent. So the agent is your customer, although there's no any direct technology requirements from your agent, all of them from yours. All of the things u should do is performing the contract according to the requirements promised by urself.
Above is my idea about the company who want to register TS but no any listed customers for them.

 

[Mustang]

I thought that only suppliers whose customers were TS (or the Big 3, et. al.) could be certified to it themselves? If that's the case, then you can't go TS, but you could go for ISO 9001:2000...

 

[Sam]

I thought that only suppliers whose customers were TS (or the Big 3, et. al.) could be certified to it themselves? If that's the case, then you can't go TS, but you could go for ISO 9001:2000...

You are thinking correctly.