Who is registered to ISO 9001:2015?

[DRAMMAN]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

I also find this a little confusing which is why I asked. I have heard this but have not seen much explanations to date. This is another one of the new vague requirements. There is no longer a requirement to establish a MRQ (Management Representative for Quality). In the leadership section 5 you will frequently see "Top Management" used. I have heard some people state that auditors will no longer be talking to the Quality leaders (Managers, Dir, VP's) but rather the top execs like CEO, COO, etc. What I am interested in knowing more about is how auditing and expectations have changed. My assumption is that over the years CB's and auditors have observed that many times the Top Management is completely clueless to what is happening with their QMS. The intent seems ot be to try and change that.

 

[dsanabria]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

In my auditing experience, which spanned two decades, the opposite was true. Especially in smaller organizations, the person leading the quality function had very limited authority over the direction of the company. Actually, their scope of authority was limited, even in issues related to product conformity and customer satisfaction issues.

I am surprised that you deal with so many small companies where the quality manager directs the organization.

Just to keep us sane, the ISO 9000 definition of top management:

Thanks for the clarification of Top Management. Person (I have 8 companies that the president (Engineering Manager, CFO, Owner) are also sales manager, research manager and yes - Quality Manager. And yes, there are lot of 2 or 3 individuals small companies - to include distributors.

While I understand the concept of letting a group of people have owner ship, how are you going to write them up if one of the individual of Top management is the Quality Manager. .. and i also have a few of those in which the quality manager is a strong influence in decision making.

 

[DRAMMAN]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

In my auditing experience, which spanned two decades, the opposite was true. Especially in smaller organizations, the person leading the quality function had very limited authority over the direction of the company. Actually, their scope of authority was limited, even in issues related to product conformity and customer satisfaction issues.

I am surprised that you deal with so many small companies where the quality manager directs the organization.

Just to keep us sane, the ISO 9000 definition of top management:

I would disagree with this a bit. In small companies the quality manager does not direct the org. I do agree that their authority is usually very limited. Almost to the extent that their purpose is to inspect things and pass the ISO audit while minimizing the intrusion to the rest of company.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

In small companies the quality manager does not direct the org. I do agree that their authority is usually very limited.

That's exactly what I inferred and that's why I found the statement that in many small organizations, top management and quality manager are one in the same, odd.

 

[Kales Veggie]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

Kales
What have been the challenges with leadership involvement? What do you look for in an audit?

I suggest you read 5.1 through 5.3 of ISO 9001:2015, which details the "shalls" for top management. Top management has to demonstrate that they understand this.

Challenges: see my initial post about "pawning it off".

 

[Kales Veggie]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

I spent a lot of time looking for this requirement but I cold not find it - can you let me know which clause is in. My concern is the newbies will take this as gospel and possible create a new requirement.

NOTE: Top management and Quality Manager are one and the same in small companies.

The Quality Manager is not the owner, is usually not responsible for the business plan, usually has limited spending and decision authority, has maybe small influence on the strategic direction of the organization, usually has authority delegated by top management. Sure the quality manager can be part of "top management", but not solely.

 

[DRAMMAN]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

Kales
Lively conversation. Post timing is an issue.

I have read it many times. How is this been remotely challenging to companies? It seems very simple to me. At its core this is not really different than Management Responsibility from 9001:2008 which also required "Top Management" to do many of these things. How has your auditing changed?

 

[dsanabria]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

I also find this a little confusing which is why I asked. I have heard this but have not seen much explanations to date. This is another one of the new vague requirements. There is no longer a requirement to establish a MRQ (Management Representative for Quality). In the leadership section 5 you will frequently see "Top Management" used. I have heard some people state that auditors will no longer be talking to the Quality leaders (Managers, Dir, VP's) but rather the top execs like CEO, COO, etc. What I am interested in knowing more about is how auditing and expectations have changed. My assumption is that over the years CB's and auditors have observed that many times the Top Management is completely clueless to what is happening with their QMS. The intent seems ot be to try and change that.

Furthermore, Top Management is clueless, is traveling on business or out of the office - negotiating for more jobs and will assign the Quality VP or Director or Manager (Top Management) to handle the requirement.

The companies does meet the requirements but should an NCR be issued?

 

[normzone]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

Furthermore, Top Management is clueless, is traveling on business or out of the office - negotiating for more jobs and will assign the Quality VP or Director or Manager (Top Management) to handle the requirement.

The companies does meet the requirements but should an NCR be issued?

Ah, posting on the Cove - a pleasure I never thought I'd have again.

Yes, the top guy(s) are often out on the road lining up new business. Thorough Management Review meeting minutes should be evidence that they are in touch regarding the status of the system.

 

[DRAMMAN]

Re: Anyone registered yet to ISO 9001:2015?

Let's think about this again. In a very small company it is common, as stated, that a single person could be the VP sales, Quality, and facilities. That is normal. There would be no reason to penalize them because of this.

No think we we have a larger companyof 500+ people. If it is a manufacturing company there will likely be a Quality Director or maybe a Quality VP. In the past, these would be the "top management" or MRQ that the auditors would focus on. Since the need for establishing an MRQ has been eliminated how will my audits change? Will the auditors want to ask more questions to Top Management?