Who is "Top Management" exactly in ISO 9001:2008?

[Big Jim]

What's missing here in all this debate is the *management style* or *management culture* of the company. In past lives, I was responsible/reported to either the Quality Director or the Manufacturing Director, depending on the job I held. I did, however, also have the ability to go and speak, directly, to the Managing Director (President) of the company.

I believe, in some cases, people confuse 'reporting lines' with the ability to influence management and 'get things done'. We've all met people who are in the 'right place', according to the lines on the org. chart, but don't have the ability to influence management. Let's face it, that's really what the MR's job is - influencing Management.

Or you might say "managing up", a talent that is hard to come by.

Since part of what we are talking about now is concerning AS9100, an "off topic" warning should be noted.

 

[Big Jim]

AS9100C 5.5.2 d "the organizational freedom and unrestricted access to top management to resolve quality management issues"

and could I not argue that if I reported to another manager, I do not have unrestricted access to top management? For instance, they once wanted me to be under the production manager, I would report to him, he would report to top management (hopefully). Doesnt that restrict my access?

And as Andy mentioned, it is the PRACTICE of the company that matters. If the quality manager or management representative reports to a production manager, that fact in and of itself does not show a problem, as long as they indeed to have the organizational freedom and unrestricted access to top management as part of their company culture.

 

[Big Jim]

AS9100C 5.5.2 d "the organizational freedom and unrestricted access to top management to resolve quality management issues"

and could I not argue that if I reported to another manager, I do not have unrestricted access to top management? For instance, they once wanted me to be under the production manager, I would report to him, he would report to top management (hopefully). Doesnt that restrict my access?

More on point, the following is from IAQG 9100 Rev B Clarifications concerning element 5.5.2:

"The level of the management representative in the organization is not important as long as they can perform management representative activities outlined in clause 5.5.2 of the standard. For example, a nonconformity would exist if the Management Representative did not have the organizational freedom to resolve matters pertaining to quality even if they are a member of the organization’s top management."

Again, this may be off topic since it is about the AS9100 standard, however the aerospace enhancement about the duties of the management representative seems to be the root of this common misconception.

 

[Onayt]

Who is "Top Management" exactly? Is there a definition somewhere? I need this clarified explicitly without doubt.

Thanks in advance. I searched and did not see anything defined.
Sorry if I missed it.
Crusader

Its the President/CEO and EVP/COO for us.