Why are GOOD Internal Auditors so hard to find?

J

Jeff Frost

#31
Some people do have that expectation. This is, I believe, part of the RABQSA 'Competency Based' courses on auditing...the 'result' is that competencies are evaluated and the student given not just a 'pass/fail', but indications of where they are 'not yet competent'...:popcorn:
You got me a little out of context but you must remember the point on taking any internal auditor course is to gain the competency based on the instruction provided. Does the instructor measure competency based on key performance requirements? Yes. The goal of any course, be it SCUBA diving or internal auditing, is to gain enough competence to perform the task independent of the instructor once the course is complete.
 
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A

adickerson

#32
That is a good point. Once you pass an auditor exam and get your audit certificate most companies stop training there. Sadly that is about all you see.

In my case I work for a small company so the only auditors I ever see working are my registrar. I have been audited by the occasional customer but nothing like a process audit, mostly just checking some paperwork. For people like me exposure is a big problem.
 
J

JaneB

#33
For people like me exposure is a big problem.
Yes, it is. There's an incomparable advantage in seeing lots of different auditors at work and/or working on lots of different audits. I know that I have learned heaps from all the exposure and different experiences with different auditors, different audits and different auditees.

For many small organisations, this just isn't a possibility. I imagine in some larger organisations, it can be. In smaller ones, it's one of the benefits that an outsider (such as a consultant for example) can bring with them.
 
6

6-Sigma

#34
:agree:Internal Audit processes do not have to be mindless clerical activities: To protect the messangers from getting shot, as the quality manager, I put the following into action:

Internal Audit Scope: The internal auditor will conduct only the intial audit and submit the audit report to the quality manager (me). The quality manager in turn does the audit trail/follow up with the process owners/stakeholders, and close the audit loop with the process manager. The quality manger will provide the auditor with results/feedback from the follow up audit. The auditor will be tasked to complete the final audit report with non-conformances issued as applicaable. A brief 15 minute meeting In the process manger's office with all stakeholders, and presentation/signoff of the finalized internal audit report. Quality manger follows up with corrective action implementation and process manager monitors corrective action for effectiveness.

1. Develop a comprohensive audit training program (6-9 month investment)

2. Identified 10 possible candidates but approached only 3 and sought from them a 1 hour per week commitment (lunch & learn).

3. Conducted the trainging and refined the internal audit program per the feedback received.

4. Turned the trained auditors loose on myself. They audited pre-selected processes in the following sequence ...

Pilot Phase 1 (30 day cycle) ..... 1) Control of Reords .....2) Control of Documents (Internal only)

Pilot Phase 2 (30 day cycle) ..... 3) Human Resources

Pilot Phase 3 (30 day cycle) .....4) Corrective Actions

5. Human resources provided constructive feedback to the internal audit team during lunch & learn session. This session was designed to achieve
.....a) Audit team to develop a working relationship with HR
.....b) The audit team to know its limitation
.....c) Quality manager to work out the "what if" situations with HR
.....d) form the "bond"

6. Present to Top Management a 10 minute (max) presentation of the "pilot internal audit" value added performance.

Note: The 3 internal auditors selected are now managers:)
 
J

JaneB

#35
Internal Audit processes do not have to be mindless clerical activities
'Do not have to be'? I'd say instead: They should never be.
The approach you outline sounds like a good one.

What was the feedback from senior management?
 
6

6-Sigma

#36
'Do not have to be'? I'd say instead: They should never be.
The approach you outline sounds like a good one.

What was the feedback from senior management?
For purposes of clarification:

At this organization there is

Top Management: CEO, CFO, Chief Counsel and CIO (Long term Business Growth)
Senior Management: Departmental VP's (Responsible for short-term Business Development)
Managers: Departmental Managers (Responsible for the tactical implementation of Strategic Corporate Objectives)

Top management was delighted to see ROI with the auditing process adding value to the bottom line.

Senior Management: Was cool towards the internal audit process. But is finally catching on.

Management: Very supportive but cautious.

Top Management tasked Senior Management with a paradigm related project:
.... "Quality is independent of cost and schedule" ......

This paradigm resulted in a major shift within the organization resulting in a new QMS management representative (MR) .........The CEO of the organization is the new MR

Which I believe should be the case in most organizations
 
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