Why are Turtle Diagrams Used?

O

onestout

#1
Been lurking for many years but never posted.

It seems as though I am in need of some help. I am new to using turtle diagrams and I just don't understand why they are used. I typically have always used a process map, very easy for me to understand, PO comes in, finished product goes out, everything in between is linked together (for the most part). Now these turtle things, they take 1 process and have some info about it but they aren't linked to anything. They don't seem to go anywhere, I wish they would all just crawl away and leave me alone (frustrational vent there).

With the new company that I am at they like these turtles and I need to get them done. Can someone simplify them for me so I can in some way justify their existance. Why not just use the old process map?

Thanks for the help.

Michael
 
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insect warfare

QA=Question Authority
Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: Turtle diagrams suck

Welcome to the Cove!

For the most part, turtle diagrams are supposed to help a user understand a process more thoroughly, by dissecting it into specific chunks (inputs, outputs, resources used, metrics, etc.) that expose more of the process than a typical flowchart or process map.

They are known to be of value to auditors in some industries, who use them as a tool to assess the effectiveness of a process. But turtles are not required by any standard that I know of, however they may be required by your company or a customer.

I have linked some example turtle diagrams from the post attachments list so you can examine them.

There are also some additional threads at the bottom of this page if you want to know more.

Brian :rolleyes:
 
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O

onestout

#3
Re: Turtle diagrams suck

Our parent company wants us to use them, so it has essentially became a requirement for me. My process maps have been much more in depth with all the forms and process instructions on it. They just seem more difficult to follow IMO.
 

insect warfare

QA=Question Authority
Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: Turtle diagrams suck

Our parent company wants us to use them, so it has essentially became a requirement for me. My process maps have been much more in depth with all the forms and process instructions on it. They just seem more difficult to follow IMO.
It's just a different kind of depth. Turtles should not be viewed in the same light as a procedure flow or work instruction, but more like the "skeleton" of a process. They can also be used in conjunction with flows or procedures to support a process. As I said before, most find them useful when auditing or analyzing a process for weaknesses.

Brian :rolleyes:
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#5
If your boss says they need to be used then you are pretty much locked in.

My first exposure to them was when we needed to switch to process based audits instead of checklist based audits. Turtles help to understand the process approach. Generally speaking, myself included, auditors strongly disliked using them as an audit tool. Setting up the turtles drastically ate into the time allotted for the audit.

Trying to get past that initial distaste, they can be very useful for the company. They help define each of your business processes extremely well. Once set up, they don't need much maintenance.

If you are still among the many that don't comprehend the process approach, you may never appreciate turtles.

By the way, turtles are not incompatible with process maps. Some turtles include individual flow charts for each turtle. An overall flow chart can still be useful with turtles.

As long as I don't have to set one up for each process when I audit I no longer have a problem with them.
 
O

onestout

#6
That's the way I was looking at it also. It seems like I'm kinda doing this to help with the upcoming audit, sorta to help give the auditor some direction.
 
R

rlake

#7
Michael,

I was skeptical at first to use the turtle diagram for auditing, but after using it I truly understand it's benefits. The turtle diagram not only looks at your process (input-output), it looks at all the things necessary to make the process sucessful.
1. Tooling and Equipment
2. Training/Knowledge/Skills
3. Methods/Documents/measurable objectives
4. Metrics/Reporting

Hope this helps
Ruth
 

Mikishots

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Been lurking for many years but never posted.

It seems as though I am in need of some help. I am new to using turtle diagrams and I just don't understand why they are used. I typically have always used a process map, very easy for me to understand, PO comes in, finished product goes out, everything in between is linked together (for the most part). Now these turtle things, they take 1 process and have some info about it but they aren't linked to anything. They don't seem to go anywhere, I wish they would all just crawl away and leave me alone (frustrational vent there).

With the new company that I am at they like these turtles and I need to get them done. Can someone simplify them for me so I can in some way justify their existance. Why not just use the old process map?

Thanks for the help.

Michael
I love Turtles (insert groan here, for those of us old enough to get the joke).

It's my go-to method if I'm auditing a process in a company that I am not totally familiar with. By completing one during the audit, I am able to easily identify if the basic framework of a process is in place and that the process connects effectively to other processes. As a previous poster mentioned, think of it as a process skeleton.

If you're viewing it as an added form you're being told to fill out and you have the opinion that the elements aren't linked together and they don't go anywhere, it has already given you a benefit you didn't realize: you're not clear on the process-based approach. If you were, the Turtle would be seen as an indispensible tool. The Turtle is all about linked areas and flow.

However, that being said, it's a TOOL. If you can see the process flow in your head and can identify that the required parts of the process are in place, the Turtle (being required by your boss) can be filled out in five minutes flat. He's happy and it was painless for you. If it's confusing and painful for you - well, maybe your boss is smarter than you might think.;)

I have seen other auditors use the Turtle as a simple way of proving that they have examined the process and have determined if and how it relates to the other interrelated processes.
 
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O

onestout

#9
I can see how they can be used, I just don't know why you wouldn't want to take them all and put them into one process map. I've had auditors follow my process maps through the plant and that seemed much easier than using multiple turtle diagrams. I am getting much more detailed than other turtles that I have seen down to including the process # and form # associated to the core process. In the end it will be close to what I've done in the past.
 
Q

QC JEWEL

#10
In my last company we used to have turtle maps, but at the end the only persons that took care from turtles was my Qualit manager and I, managers didn't take care of them so finally we eliminate them from the system, I have to mention that our registrar auditor never asked for them. Turtles are an excellent tool for process understanding but if no body uses them it is a waste of time to have them.:notme::bonk:
 
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