Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?

A

amanbhai

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

I think a lot of the general failure of leadership in American business can be tied to the Wikipedia reference-linkDunning-Kruger effect a concept that says that (a) incompetent people are likely to have greater confidence in their own competence than people who are competent and (b) people who are competent tend to go in the opposite direction, doubting their own competence.

Combined with the Peter Principle (in a hierarchy people tend to rise to a level of incomptency) the Dunning-Kruger effect seems to have great explanatory power.

how does one correct this Dunning-Kruger effect?
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

how does one correct this Dunning-Kruger effect?
The only hope is to stop putting incompetent people in positions of responsibility, and if their incompetence isn't demonstrated until they are in those positions, to remove them.
 

Big Jim

Admin
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

The only hope is to stop putting incompetent people in positions of responsibility, and if their incompetence isn't demonstrated until they are in those positions, to remove them.

Yes, but the Peter Principle will ensure that we will always have incompetents at the top of many companies. The Peter Principle basically says that people rise to the level of their incompetency. These two principles feed one another.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Yes, but the Peter Principle will ensure that we will always have incompetents at the top of many companies. The Peter Principle basically says that people rise to the level of their incompetency. These two principles feed one another.

I agree, but of the two--Dunning-Kruger and Peter Principle--the latter is the only hope of actual improvement, even if the hope is rather dim. What also feeds into all of this is the idea that the further up the hierarchical ladder a person gets, the less likely he is to admit error in this regard--promoting someone who is or winds up incompetent.
 
C

Chance

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

The CEO should do those things for which he is most competent. If he is very competent in ISO matters, then perhaps he should do it. If he is not, he should defer to the person in management who IS the most qualified on the topic. It is why he has an accounting dept., and legal experts, to support him where he is not the most competent.
Our CEO is extremely competent not for ISO matters only but for the QMS system. He delegates the task to me to spread out how important quality is. We are now in a critical stage which is implementation.
My task is to educate people to utilize/use our QMS and look for continuous improvement opportunities. If you want my CEO to do it, then I will loose my job.:nopity:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Our CEO is extremely competent not for ISO matters only but for the QMS system. He delegates the task to me to spread out how important quality is. We are now in a critical stage which is implementation.
My task is to educate people to utilize/use our QMS and look for continuous improvement opportunities. If you want my CEO to do it, then I will loose my job.:nopity:
In most cases the CEO doesn't need to "do" anything to educate people to utilize/use our QMS and look for continuous improvement opportunities except to demonstrate his/her support of the robust QMS by, for example:

1) Providing adequate resources for implementation, including training. This doesn't mean sending everyone to a resort retreat for seminars, but it does mean making it clear that middle managers not claim they or their people don't have time to do what they are assigned to do, which does include training.

2) Reviewing the QMS, not just little parts of it or financial figures, and responding to the data by assigning actions to people where need becomes apparent (for example, in response to repeat audit findings or safety mishaps) and holding them responsible to fulfill.

3) Making performance to defined QMS policies and plans part of people's performance reviews, including middle managers. This means ending the management-by-objective tendency to push productivity numbers at the expense of quality, safety, customer satisfaction and compliance to regulations.

Without these types of support, I fear training will be an empty exersize, or an exersize in people's eyeballs rolling.
:2cents:
 
C

Chance

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

In most cases the CEO doesn't need to "do" anything to educate people to utilize/use our QMS and look for continuous improvement opportunities except to demonstrate his/her support of the robust QMS by, for example:

1) Providing adequate resources for implementation, including training. This doesn't mean sending everyone to a resort retreat for seminars, but it does mean making it clear that middle managers not claim they or their people don't have time to do what they are assigned to do, which does include training.
So middle managers should be reminded, refreshed about their responsibilities to effectively implement our QMS.
2) Reviewing the QMS, not just little parts of it or financial figures, and responding to the data by assigning actions to people where need becomes apparent (for example, in response to repeat audit findings or safety mishaps) and holding them responsible to fulfill.
On this one, I think I will coordinte the review of all the processes with middle managers and present the outcome on a separate meeting with middile managers plus the CEO. During this meeting, it is up to the CEO to assign responsibilities.
3) Making performance to defined QMS policies and plans part of people's performance reviews, including middle managers. This means ending the management-by-objective tendency to push productivity numbers at the expense of quality, safety, customer satisfaction and compliance to regulations.

Without these types of support, I fear training will be an empty exersize, or an exersize in people's eyeballs rolling.
:2cents:
Yes, we are implementing this one starting this year.
:agree:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

So middle managers should be reminded, refreshed about their responsibilities to effectively implement our QMS.
Ideally they shouldn't need to be reminded because they don't forget. The QMS should be designed in a way so that it is clear that what's planned out is done so because it's the right thing to do for our customers. The standard is meant to provide guidance on what's involved with that. If we make it complicated or onerous, we should ask ourselves how that can be avoided so we can hopr for full cooperation and buy in.
On this one, I think I will coordinte the review of all the processes with middle managers and present the outcome on a separate meeting with middile managers plus the CEO. During this meeting, it is up to the CEO to assign responsibilities.
What stops you from providing the review to the entire group, versus first with no CEO, then including the CEO?
Yes, we are implementing this one starting this year. :agree:
I am glad to hear it, as a conflict between performance expectations is the source of a great deal of dysfunction out there from Enron on down. :2cents:
 
C

Chance

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

What stops you from providing the review to the entire group, versus first with no CEO, then including the CEO?:2cents:
There are so many departments with so many procedures to look at.
How is this done in other companies?
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

There are so many departments with so many procedures to look at.
How is this done in other companies?
Oh, I wasn't clear on just what this review would entail - I thought it would be a review of the gap analysis or first round audit results. My bad.

How many procedures do you have?
 
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