Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?

[John Broomfield]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

I think a lot of the general failure of leadership in American business can be tied to the Dunning-Kruger effect a concept that says that (a) incompetent people are likely to have greater confidence in their own competence than people who are competent and (b) people who are competent tend to go in the opposite direction, doubting their own competence.

Combined with the Peter Principle (in a hierarchy people tend to rise to a level of incomptency) the Dunning-Kruger effect seems to have great explanatory power.

Jim,

Many thanks, with these countervailing human factors it looks like we need all the help we can get!

Better to have a management system that actually helps its users to meet requirements than a collection of documents that relies on competent (and incompetent) humans to comply, conform or figure it for themselves.

Cheers,

John

 

[Ninja]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Browsed through this thread today and saw only hints toward what I think is the main reason implementations either fail or are shelved indefinitely (same thing, no?)

Top management buy-in based on increased profit.
IMHO not as an auditor, but as a user, Top buy-in comes from realizing that it will improve the bottom line...period.
If it costs more than it will help my business, why would I want it?
If improving is a good ROI, I'll invest.
Quality for Quality's sake doesn't sound that great to me. It's a tool to accomplish a goal...and the goal is profit.

That said, establishing and improving a QMS typically is a great ROI...not only as a ticket to play, but also in building a loyal and trusting client base of repeat business (based on Quality, not QMS).

The fails, then, come only from three sources:
1. Tops who don't recognize the ROI.
2. Tops who recognize there isn't an ROI for their situation.
3. Tops who recognize there is one but don't understand the investment instrument.

I wonder through most of the cases described on this thread if #3 isn't by far the most prevalent.

At the end of the day, QMS is a tool to make money.
Explaining the investment instrument and how it works (and what would make it fail to return and show a loss) is the way to get buy-in from the Top.

 

[bobdoering]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

And, sadly, Jan, it's also prevalent at even the local community college. One of my sons has been tasked with finding some education in basic quality methods etc - he works in an FAA regulated industry - and the local colleges have NOTHING to educate our new entry employees on what 'ISO' (nor any related topics) is - yet, here I am living in 'Automation Alley', at the very heart of ISO/TS 16949 world! Useless...

Conversely, our community college program usually has about 6 students per session. Worse yet, the machining programs do not require their students to take metrology.

And the band plays on.....

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

<snip>Worse yet, the machining programs do not require their students to take metrology.

And the band plays on.....

Tom Petty laments about "The Last DJ."
Likewise, a good machinist will be extinct very soon....

Stijloor.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Conversely, our community college program usually has about 6 students per session. Worse yet, the machining programs do not require their students to take metrology.

And the band plays on.....

The only consistent requirement, it seems, is payment of tuition.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

The biggest reason for leaders not getting involved is that they often do not see a system development project with the charter for the resulting management system to "add value faster and prevent loss sooner while assuring quality". I must admit that I would rather get that message across before explaining the wonders of information management!

Me too. In spades. Absolutely agree with you that that is the message that needs to be got across.

Combined with the Peter Principle (in a hierarchy people tend to rise to a level of incomptency) the Dunning-Kruger effect seems to have great explanatory power.

What a depressing thought. And here some people believe that America has better managers (on the whole) than Australia does.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Despite the good or bad work of consultants, I think that an organization with a bad system or bad documentation only has itself to blame. The standard is a short and simple one, and there are tons of helpful interpretations both free and for a fee. An organization that embarks into ISO 9001 and can't check on their friendly consultant's bad advice deserves what it gets.

I take your point, but suggest that we try to move beyond blame to unearth the underlying causes. (And perhaps I erred in suggesting that the documentation is the whole thing, but what's more important to me is that they had a not terribly good 'formal' quality system, yet in many ways what they were doing as an organisation was damned good!)

As we teach in problem-solving 101, stopping at blame is not helpful and we do a lot of sheeting home responsibility to senior management, and bewailing their lack of involvement. Surely a better question is: OK, they erred, and yes, ultimately they are responsible for that, but why did they just accept the advice of the so-called "consultant"? Why didn't they look up those helpful interpretations? And I very much doubt the answers include 'laziness' or 'too busy'. I suspect they include factors like 'thought it always had to be like that' or 'those are the kinds of systems we've seen before'.

 

[sunugupta]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

this was very informative but if we do have a commitment to keep our employees aware and trained wrt ISO 9001 or other standards or we fall foul o f the traininig and awareness clause is it not?

 

[sunugupta]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

in our organisation for example few people are aware of th efull implications of the ISO systems and they prepare the documents and everything associated with it while for the rest it is forgotten terriotory. what happens is that on paper the systems are fool proof and wonderful while in practice people continue to do what they have always done...........it is a vicious cycle

 

[JaneB]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

in our organisation for example few people are aware of th efull implications of the ISO systems and they prepare the documents and everything associated with it while for the rest it is forgotten terriotory. what happens is that on paper the systems are fool proof and wonderful while in practice people continue to do what they have always done...........it is a vicious cycle

A vicious circle, yes, and also an example of the sort of 'failed' implementation Sidney is talking a bout, I think, and why he raised the topic, seeking suggestions as to why it happens so often..