Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?

[John Broomfield]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

in our organisation for example few people are aware of th efull implications of the ISO systems and they prepare the documents and everything associated with it while for the rest it is forgotten terriotory. what happens is that on paper the systems are fool proof and wonderful while in practice people continue to do what they have always done...........it is a vicious cycle

sunugupta,

May I suggest training for deep understanding of your management system?

This training of the employees should be delivered by their leaders and managers so the employees can see their commitment and realize that their management system is meant to be helping them to meet requirements.

Encourage the employees to demand more of their management system.

Do not be surprised if leaders demand more of their management system before they will promote it and explain it. For example, does the management system support and improve the entire business cycle from customer needs into cash in the bank?

Try not to mention ISO. Try not to mention certification. Try not to mention the system standard. These three topics get in the way of the main message.

John

 

[The Specialist]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Quality for Quality's sake doesn't sound that great to me. It's a tool to accomplish a goal...and the goal is profit.

Ninja, whilst I see the value in your argument, and indeed agree that the 'bottom line' is an importand and driving factor in business...

I strongly disagree with your 'quoted' comment, above.

There is a strong moral argument for quality and a responsibility for manufacturing companies to provide quality products to the paying consumer... not just so they get repeat business.

In particular (I work in Pharmaceuticals) there is a GRAVE importance in quality where peoples lives/health is at stake.

There MUST be some morality in business. Quality is a good start.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

I really don't think that we can single ISO 9001 out for particular criticism, here. It is unique in that an external agency is supposed to verify compliance, unlike Lean or 6 Sigma, but I don't think that is as significant a factor as is suggested. From my experience of over 35 years in industry, the 'failure' of any initiative is directly linked to the amount of practical involvement of the leadership. Certainly, Lean and 6 Sigma are often internally initiated, however, I'd wager a hefty sum that they "fail" as much as quality management systems do...

 

[JaneB]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Ninja, whilst I see the value in your argument, and indeed agree that the 'bottom line' is an importand and driving factor in business...

I strongly disagree with your 'quoted' comment, above.

There is a strong moral argument for quality and a responsibility for manufacturing companies to provide quality products to the paying consumer... not just so they get repeat business.

In particular (I work in Pharmaceuticals) there is a GRAVE importance in quality where peoples lives/health is at stake.

There MUST be some morality in business. Quality is a good start.

Excellent post - I agree strongly. Profit is NOT the only goal there is, the be-all and end-all: to accept that point of view essentially supports all kinds of sociopathic behaviour and beliefs. And the "Profit is the only and sole goal there is" is the complete antithesis of sustainable business as well as morality.

But I wouldn't restrict it as you have to manufacturing companies only - service providers also have that responsibility.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

I really don't think that we can single ISO 9001 out for particular criticism, here. It is unique in that an external agency is supposed to verify compliance, unlike Lean or 6 Sigma, but I don't think that is as significant a factor as is suggested. From my experience of over 35 years in industry, the 'failure' of any initiative is directly linked to the amount of practical involvement of the leadership. Certainly, Lean and 6 Sigma are often internally initiated, however, I'd wager a hefty sum that they "fail" as much as quality management systems do...

Yes, I think you make a really valid point, Andy.

I've never yet seen a major initiative fail that was strongly supported by the leadership and powers that be. And by 'strong support' I of course mean far far more than simply uttering some words and handing over some money. I mean, really being the leader/s. Leading the way. Guiding the others. Holding the 'vision', promoting the principles and the ideals, insisting on what is wanted, guiding the changes in beliefs, thought and behaviour that need to occur, and celebrating the wins, as well as correcting the mis-steps or failures. If that oh-so-important factor is there... an initiative does not fail. Not that I have ever seen. And yes, I've seen the reverse, also.

 

[Ninja]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

In particular (I work in Pharmaceuticals) there is a GRAVE importance in quality where peoples lives/health is at stake.

There MUST be some morality in business. Quality is a good start.

Top management buy-in based on increased profit.
IMHO not as an auditor, but as a user, Top buy-in comes from realizing that it will improve the bottom line...period.
If it costs more than it will help my business, why would I want it?
If improving is a good ROI, I'll invest.
Quality for Quality's sake doesn't sound that great to me. It's a tool to accomplish a goal...and the goal is profit.

Taken only as the snippet that you quoted, I can understand your disagreement.

You make a good point, and I applaud the drive for morality in business and indeed join you in your effort (though I won't limit it to business)...but until I see morality as a major decision point in general industry I'm not gonna try to use a moral obligation to justify investment of retained earnings in ISO 9001 implementation.
Improve quality, sure...but not ISO 9001 on a moral basis.

Please understand, however, that the context of that quote (also shown above) was the basis for getting buy-in from top management, not the drive for serving customers. The question I was commenting on was not "Why should I do a quality job?", but was instead, "Why invest in the full implementation an ISO 9001 system" (see thread title). All the difference in the world...

All in all, I think we actually may agree on the topic and just using different words. Just guessing, though, and not intending to put words in your mouth.

 

[Sardokar]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Managers buy-in make all the difference in the world

espescially if a Manager keeps raising corrective actions on other departments but starts to vehemently protest and refuses to comply when a corrective action is raised against one of his departments

the fact that that manager is part of top management doesnt help at all

so yes ... this is one of the major causes that allows me to (sadly) predict that sooner or later our quality system will crash and burn


(although we have been sucessfully registered for 3 years with one of the top registrars in the world ... who's bragging ? not me

 

[howste]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

...we have been sucessfully registered for 3 years with one of the top registrars in the world...

What's your definition of successful registration then?

 

[Sardokar]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Um ...

well we have been ISO 9001 certified by an external Auditor for 3 years ...


sorry if I'm not phrasing this correctly , english isnt my strongest language

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

What's your definition of successful registration then?

Howste, that's a good question. But I would simply ask what is the measure of success (as it relates to a QMS)? That's exactly why I posted the comment @

Contrary to what some other people want to believe, in my estimation, 99%+ of organizations going for ISO 9001 implementation do so because they were either mandated, coerced, strongly advised, etc... to seek certification. So, certification becomes the end goal. That is the biggest negative contributor to the problem. Certification, not performance, becomes the final target and "measure of success".

The consulting and conformity assessment practitioners have trivialized the product, so it could be marketed more promptly and to the masses. A significant percentage of such practitioners have no idea of what business processes are and what a system comprised of processes is. In this post, we have a very representative image:

Back to my point, if certification is the end goal and, substandard systems are awarded and maintain certification undeserving, with no involvement from top management, with no corrections to dysfunctional business processes, with no change in negative corporate culture, why would we expect top management to be involved? And, worse, in those instances where a competent third-party auditor wants to keep the organization accountable to the INTENT of the standard, but the organization doesn't, it is so easy to find another CB and/or auditor that won't be "so demanding".

If we really want ISO 9001 (and it's inexorably connected certification piece) to be what is meant to be, many stakeholders would have to change their behaviors. Accountability would have to be exercised. And accountability is something that many people avoid, given a chance.