Why do 'we' and ?our? QMS?s stop working? What are the Failure Modes?

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#21
Lucinda,

They say misery loves company. Well, my situation is VERY much like yours, so you're not alone. Our "top dogs" bought the company when it was fairly successful and moving up and forward in sales and QMS and technology. They promised lots of things but once they had settled things changed about 179 degrees. Since, they've pretty much put the QMS and technology on hold and sales and market share is going down. But they are the most stubborn people on the planet, I think, and there is no getting thru to them. You can lead a horse to water... But, like you, I haven't given up and until something better comes along I and most of the others are still trying to make things better where and when we can. We've just learned not to even try to push anything or else there is pain. Good luck.
 
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N
#22
Just curious

Lucinda and Mike you both have my sympathies. I suspect that there are a lot of us that are fighting the good fight without full senior management commitment. However, in most cases we have to be accredited to various standards or we can't do business and therefore, quality is deemed a necessary evil. Hence our jobs are not in immediate jeaopardy. In your cases it sounds like there isn't the pressure of customer demands so the temptation to ignore quality is so much greater. I am curious what kind of business are your companies in? Size? Type of ownership? I can't help wonder how many less jobs there would be in quality without ISO9000, QS-9000, TS16949 etc. forcing the issue. So if the worst comes to pass, don't blame yourself, very few companies have the willpower to put in an effective QMS without a gun to their head. My advise FWIIS, look for companies that already have or must develop a formal quality system. Then make yourself indispensible through improvement projects that visibly help the bottom line, those are the only ones senior management notice and appreciate. Good Luck.
 
E

energy

#23
So?

Lucinda said:

This is a whole hog "giving up". Certification, the idea of crafting a quality management system, the idea of changing or adding to what is currently done, etc. And accept the fact that they will just keep running a business full of errors occurring and fires to put out. I don't want to give my company a black eye in public since there are many other companies that behave this way and manage to stay in business. Fortunately, our clients seldom suffer. We just aren't as "good" or efficient as we could be.
I envy you. Really! It wouldn't bother me in the least. We have checks and balances. We have happy customers and the customer base grows every week. We follow our instincts. They are good. Everybody thinks ISO is a waste of time and money. I would rather not have to deal with it. REALLY! Cheer up. Not everybody likes turmoil.:bonk: :ko: :smokin:
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#24
Energy,

A wise man once said "be careful what you ask for, because someday you might just get it".

From your descriptions, my former company was much like what you are going through, although I think you have a bit more management support. It was difficult and frustrating and there were many who looked at ISO implementation work as a pain in the a**, too. Still, I'd prefer that situation to what I face now.

Imagine seeing your company in real danger of going out of business largely due to very preventable management and quality decisions/issues. It ain't a fun thing to face every day. The struggle is still there, but the successes far fewer and the failures more frequent. That kind of "turmoil" IMO is much worse than struggling to get people to do their ISO-implementation/maintenance related work (which by itself is, admittedly, a real pain).

Of course, rumor has it that some folks have full management and employee buy-in and they are also performing well as a business and relatively secure in their jobs. Hmmm.. I wonder if there's any connection???
 
J

JodiB

#25
Re: So?

energy said:



I envy you. Really! It wouldn't bother me in the least. We have checks and balances. We have happy customers and the customer base grows every week. We follow our instincts. They are good. Everybody thinks ISO is a waste of time and money. I would rather not have to deal with it. REALLY! Cheer up. Not everybody likes turmoil.:bonk: :ko: :smokin:
Oh, but don't you see that if they turn their backs on this, that my job goes away? I don't have the luxury of having tasks unrelated to process improvement and development of new programs (like corrective action, receiving inspection, etc.). That's why I had asked everyone what you do as a QM so that I would have some day-to-day tasks unrelated to improvement or new programs.

No, sad to say, I'll be on the street if this doesn't go the right way.:(
 
M

M Greenaway

#26
Lucinda

Have you been able to do something at your company which can demonstrate the benefits of the QMS ? Something that is real and tangeable for the good of the company ?

This is not a pointed question, but sometimes the setting up of a formal QMS can appear to be of little value as it looks to be purely a documentation exercise, and people get the impression that is what quality is all about.

Have you, for example, set up a system to measure the cost of poor quality ?
 
D

David Mullins

#27
Noboxwine,

1. I don't think the graph applies only to Quality
2. You may have overlooked the impact of worker commitment, which came dowse the most committed management team.

Ps - no plastic corks or screw tops either.
 
E

energy

#28
Roger that!

David Mullins said:

Noboxwine,

1. I don't think the graph applies only to Quality
2. You may have overlooked the impact of worker commitment, which came dowse the most committed management team.

Ps - no plastic corks or screw tops either.
David,

Here, here. I second the motion. Workers view ISO as my job. Nothing to do with them.

Mike S,

Get what I wish for? I already have it!:vfunny: Unless my fellow workers get off the dime, we will never achieve registration. But, we also don't appear to be going out of business, anytime soon. We could get sold, because we are profitable and end up out of the business. Been there! Never worry about things you can't change.

Lucinda,

Broaden your horizons. You're too bright for your company not to find a niche for you. Begin now, as Martin has alluded to, and create your own niche. You'll do fine. There is life besides Quality. Look around you. Keep the faith. :ko: :smokin:
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#29
Aussie and Energy,

I don't think nonoxwine was saying that management committment was the ONLY key to QMS effectiveness, but rather the MAIN key. That's may take, anyway.

Also, in my experience there is rarely a significant lack of worker committment IF there is adequate top management committment. The troops follow the lead of the general. If the general is lacking in committment toward the QMS (or anything else) the troops will be the same. Or, have I missed something??
 
E

energy

#30
What I'm seeing

Mike S. said:

Aussie and Energy,

I don't think nonoxwine was saying that management committment was the ONLY key to QMS effectiveness, but rather the MAIN key. That's may take, anyway.

Also, in my experience there is rarely a significant lack of worker committment IF there is adequate top management committment. The troops follow the lead of the general. If the general is lacking in committment toward the QMS (or anything else) the troops will be the same. Or, have I missed something??
No argument with noboxwine's statements. Just mentioned that a lot has to do with the workers, too. Both are important.

I have a CEO constantly beating the ISO drum in front of employees. When he's finished, they all walk away shaking their collective heads in amusement. You know, accompanied by gestures unflattering to any Manager. They just don't care. And, when it comes to the Quality of their work, they are second to none. The CEO knows that and only hopes that I will make it happen. He too, thinks ISO is my job. He says otherwise, in public. "Bill can't do it alone". But, that's the extent of it. All excuses are accepted for not completing ISO related tasks in exchange for increased sales and on-time delivery. Such is life.
:ko: :smokin:
 
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