Why internally audit ISO clauses for ISO 9001:2000? (Small company)

B

Bob_M

#11
Re: Why internally audit ISO clauses for 9k2k? (Small company)

Shaun Daly said:
We never have audited our system v ISO itself after registration.

As other peole have done, we audited our performance (and compliance to our system).

However, as I read somewhere recently - things degrade with time.

Changes to your system should be approved as ISO compatible before implementation, but........

If your organisation is anything like mine, you have a 100 people running about like lunatics introducing new products, inhabiting new buildings, a constant turnover of staff;

Can you(we) be everywhere, everywhen?

After a few hiccups here I am starting to take the view that a complete system check TO ISO is not such a bad idea every now & then.

Once a year? How long will it take for a small company to do this. 1 day? 2?

How many embarrasing NC's during surveillance audits will it save?
Good points.
We're real small 25 people (6 in the office) so it will take longer to lose control. But I probably could schedule ISO "checks" into the overall annual schedule that is seperate from department/function/process specific audits...
 
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R

Randy Stewart

#12
Bob,
We don't audit at all. In fact Jim Wade is writing an article on some of the stuff we do.

We use process reviews and our CI program and First Time Quality Teams (hate the name) to provide feedback and performance information.

One of my responsiblities is to maintain compliance, all changes to process, documentation, etc. come through me for compliance. Our policies and system are set up to allow this to work.

About all the "auditors" have to do is to verify that our quality records are maintained and filed properly.
 
B

Bob_M

#13
Re: Why internally audit ISO clauses for 9k2k? (Small company)

Randy Stewart said:
Bob,
We don't audit at all. In fact Jim Wade is writing an article on some of the stuff we do.

We use process reviews and our CI program and First Time Quality Teams (hate the name) to provide feedback and performance information.

One of my responsiblities is to maintain compliance, all changes to process, documentation, etc. come through me for compliance. Our policies and system are set up to allow this to work.

About all the "auditors" have to do is to verify that our quality records are maintained and filed properly.
I don't quite think our system is stable/strong enough yet to consider that option...
 
R

Randy Stewart

#14
It's taken us about 3 years to get here, and we are still adjusting to it. The Toyota Production System has nothing to do with audits, they view it as a waste of time also. It may take awhile but my suggestion would be to keep that as a goal.
As your system matures you should see where auditing becoming more and more non-value added. You don't have to police your system, it does it itself by having everyone involved.
It's not as tough as it seems, forget about the ISO/TS requirements and see what is right for your system. You'll see that most of the requirements will take care of themselves. ISO is a great template but you have to remove the training wheels at some point to really move on. At the same time the compliance stuff becomes easier and easier to maintain.

As was stated in that great movie "The Waterboy":
"You con dew it"
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
Re: Why internally audit ISO clauses for 9k2k? (Small company)

Stew - This interests me because when I went to a 9k2k transitioning class a while back the instructor was also a consultant. She said one of her major customers used their KPI's to determine the audit frequency. As long as the indicators were good - no auditing req'd. Once a negative trend is found it would trigger an audit. Something like that, I may be a little off.

Anyway - like Bob - we're no where near that yet, but it is something I've been thinking about. I have a couple of questions:

What is First Time Quality Team and what feedback do they provide? Does it have to do with new products/jobs?

What audit results do you show your auditor? Do you show the process reviews and other performance information as evidence that audits weren't necessary? How do your auditors record the reviews of records?

I train our audit team to audit to our internal procedures and customer specific requirements. I am the one who ensures compliance to the standard. Like your set up - all changes come through me. All of our Level I and Level II documents are signed by me, either Prepared By or Approved By, as evidence that I have verified that it satisfies requirements of the standard. Our auditors prepare checklists from our LI & LII documents and customer specific requirements. What I'd like to do is somehow have them using our metrics as well. What do you suggest?
 
Last edited:
R

Randy Stewart

#16
What is First Time Quality Team and what feedback do they provide? Does it have to do with new products/jobs?
We have established a "Quality" Council that answers to the Operations Committee. The Quality Council is responsible for First Time Quality throughout the orgainization. This council is made up of individuals for all areas of our company; internal controls, our 2 black belts, IT, production fixture design, Quality Managers, product design, myself, etc. The council member mentor the First Time Quality Teams which have been tasked with the hands on fixes. We currently have 6 teams working, 3 at our Dimensional Control facility (fixture designs), 1 in our Product and Die Design and 1 at each of our manufacturing plants (Prototype & Produciton). These guys are our SWAT teams, they identify different areas of improvement, even if it's a lack of communication. They formulate ideas (with help of the mentors) and present the findings and suggestions to the Council. The Council will then direct the actions and ensure it is applied system wide (Best In Class) where applicable. In actuality, the teams will review/audit all process at least once a year and apply lessons learned across the organization.
We have based this on (of all things) our Safety Committee and what they have been able to achieve over the last 3 years in reduction of occurances.

What audit results do you show your auditor?
The reviews of COPs & MOP's completed by the FTQT and Council. All corrective actions and any Issue/Action items.

We went through a questionaire when we set up our measureables and each department uses the same thing. I'll attach it so you can see what I'm talking about. You've probably used something similar anyway. But, with the review of why the measurable was chosen and what the desire or expected outcome was/is, they should be able to gauge the success of the measure. We have found that in the review, not only should the measureable be evaluated but how the item is being measured. And with that if the personnel know why it's being measured.
 

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