Why is it so hard to get white collars to visit the factory floor?

#1
This thread is a spinoff from Gemba is a japanese term for place (Where the action is) in the Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations forum. wmarhel made a good point, and I thought it deserved a thread of its own:
wmarhel said:
Of course, asking some people to get off their chair and out of their office into the :eek: shop floor is just downright inexcusable.
There, unfortunately, you hit the nail on the head :yes: . Why is it that so many white collars consider it an insult to be asked to set foot on the factory floor? Come to think of it: Why do so many blue collars refuse to set foot in the office?

That said, I must also say that this problem used to be much more widespread. Most people here do not suffer from it, but as we all know, there will always be incorrigibles.

/Claes
 
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Howard Atkins

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#2
Because they don't want to get dirty:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I worked with a company recently that I never saw the CEO or the VP Operations in the Gemba apart from visits. I have the luxury of being able to stop working with people like this whose culture is so far from mine.

This is the real acid test of the company, a morning visit by the managers to production is vital and the companies that do this seeing the effect.
I think that some of the problem is the historical context- we still call it white and blue collar and thus are continuing the discrimination.
So many people "fought" to get a "good" job by education etc that the stigma has remained.
This is I think a cultural thing that maybe is different in the Japanese society where I think that every one is regarded as a relevant "cog" rathere than a "bigger cog"
 
T

Toefuzz - 2006

#3
As I've said before, I work for a small family owned business and actually find the reverse to be true (as you pointed out). Our white collar employees live on the floor while the blue collar employees view anything having to do with the office as being negative. Much of this stems from the good old "We've been doing it this way for 50 years" motto, which is unfortunate b/c anytime they do come to the office and see me on a computer they think I'm playing games. Of course I might entering data for a DOE that turns out to be very beneficial to them, but that doesn't matter b/c anything having to do with a computer is inherently bad. The only 'real work' is manual labor.

Okay, now I'm rambling but I just have to go off on this tangent... Think about Atlas Shrugged... The men of the mind weren't considered 'working men' and were thought of as living off the poor downtrodden masses toiling away in the factories. Once these men of the mind went on strike the entire society began to collapse. Compare this to today's society... how often do you hear the term 'working man' used to describe the people on the shop floor? What remains most amazing about the book is that it's just as relevant today, if not more so, as when it was originally published. Of course some of her examples make use of hyperbole to emphasis her point, but the general idea is still the same. Now, where am I going with this you might ask... I guess my central idea is that there seems to be a general distrust between management and employees in most organizations. The white collar employees assume the people on the factory floor are trying to get away with doing as little as possible while the blue collar workers assume the office staff is simply mooching off them. In the case of a small business they might not have thought things completely through and come to the realization that without the business owner investing capital into the company they would have no job. Of course neither could exist without the other... just doesn't seem like many people realize that.

I apologize if this post is a little weird... The Mrs. began having contractions earlier this evening so we spent much of the night in the hospital, which means I'm going on 36 hours without sleep :) All is well though... well, it will be after I hit post and go to bed!
 
#4
Toefuzz said:
Of course neither could exist without the other... just doesn't seem like many people realize that.
How right you are... Good post. Additional comments anyone?

Toefuzz said:
All is well though... well, it will be after I hit post and go to bed!
Er... If you do go to bed, that is. I think you mentioned something about your missus having contractions? Anyway, best of luck :agree:

/Claes
 
D

Don Palmer

#5
Toefuzz said:
Now, where am I going with this you might ask... I guess my central idea is that there seems to be a general distrust between management and employees in most organizations. The white collar employees assume the people on the factory floor are trying to get away with doing as little as possible while the blue collar workers assume the office staff is simply mooching off them. In the case of a small business they might not have thought things completely through and come to the realization that without the business owner investing capital into the company they would have no job. Of course neither could exist without the other... just doesn't seem like many people realize that.
Sad but true. It would seem the corporate climate in my company's organization is deeply rooted within this mindset.

Toefuzz said:
I apologize if this post is a little weird... The Mrs. began having contractions earlier this evening so we spent much of the night in the hospital, which means I'm going on 36 hours without sleep :) All is well though... well, it will be after I hit post and go to bed!
Best wishes to you and yours. Thanks for sharing.
 
F

Franco_1965

#6
Claes Gefvenberg said:
Why is it that so many white collars consider it an insult to be asked to set foot on the factory floor?
The answer is simple: you may become a white collar if (and only if) you refuse to set your foot on the factory floor. The reverse is also true: if you agree to go to the factory floor, you know for sure you will never ever become a white collar. Simple isn't it ? :cool:
 
W

wmarhel

#7
Here's a few examples.........

1) Going out into the workplace (regardless of where that is: shopfloor, office, etc.), may result in someone coming up and asking a question for which no there is no reply or answer. This may generate some discomfort because nobody likes to look foolish, especially over an area they supposedly manage.

2) If a person is in area where there is a problem, they may be expected to get involved and help fix it. Therefore, it is better to act like George Costanza and hide behind your desk.

3) "My boss doesn't go out there, why should I?"

4) Just plain arrogance with thoughts like, "I'm in the office, why'd would I want to go out there?" Unfortunately, when it comes to manufacturing, many office people don't realize that it is the assembly worker on the shopfloor who pays the office person's salary.

Again, there is a issue of leadership as stated in item #3. Then again, "Leadership" is difficult because the choices or direction may not always be popular or easier. In my mind, it is the lack of leadership which hurts most companies.

There is the old adage.....

Those that "can"...DO!
Those that "can't"...MANAGE!

Wayne

PS: It actually isn't as good as the other version:

Those that "can"...DO!
Those that "can't"...TEACH!

Those that "can't teach"...TEACH GYM!
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
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#8
wmarhel said:
There is the old adage.....

Those that "can"...DO!
Those that "can't"...MANAGE!

Wayne

PS: It actually isn't as good as the other version:

Those that "can"...DO!
Those that "can't"...TEACH!

Those that "can't teach"...TEACH GYM!
You forgot

Those that "can't teach gym...ADVISE!
 
T

tarheels4 - 2007

#9
I audit a company with 5 plants. All have over 300 employees. The plant managers are on the floor quite a bit. One is even involved in fixing presses or changing dies. These are the kind of "white" collars that are respected by the employees. This company is doing very well by the way. Also they are non-union.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
Claes Gefvenberg said:
Why is it that so many white collars consider it an insult to be asked to set foot on the factory floor?
Because there's work being done there:cool:. This reminds me of the drama critic who wrote about a terrible play he saw, saying that the best way to get people into the theater would be to show the play in the street.:lmao:
 
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