Will TS 16949 be aligned to ISO 9000:2000 in the future?

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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
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#41
Originally posted by isodog:

The point of all this is the big 3 are not going to get agessive aboutm 16949 'till it revises to become compatible with ISO 9000:2000
I think the issue is more a matter of the investment in QS9000 they and thousands of companies have made.
 
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Laura M

#42
I'm dealing with a few small companies that only want to do QS-9000. To them, 16949, equivalent or not, is not popular enough. If B3 pull out of QS, the backlash will be tremendous. Suppliers will think the B3 just want them to spend more $$. And for what? Those of us on the exterior may see the advantage, but the small businesses just catching on to the QS thing can't fathom spending money implementing something they really haven't hear of yet.
 
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M. Savramis

#43
Why does everyone seem to be under the assumption that QS 9000 will disappear. Even when it comes to Subcontractor Development TS 16949 states that subcontractors will comply to this Technical Specification or an existing customer quality system requirements manual. It is really up to the individual company to asses their own strategic objectives and decide which path to take. If you are a tier 1 supplier and want to have, or have European business, going for TS 16949 might be a definite goal for the future. If you are tier 2 and run a 10 men shop making rubber "thing a magigs" QS 9000 might be plenty for you. Remember the big three are the ones that have invested big in QS 9000 and there has been no push at this point for certification to TS 16949. Furthermore when the new ISO 9000: 2000 changes come through I would think it would be easier to comply if you already have a robust quality system instead of nothing at all. Bottom line lets be proactive rather than reactive.
 
S

Spaceman Spiff

#44
If I'm tier 2 and makes thinga magigs with 10 people, I wouldn't bother with ISO or QS certification, unless a customer demands it. When he does I'll most likely a) charge him a premium on thinga magigs to pay for the certification or b) tell him to take his business elsewhere.

I firmly believe a 10 person shop will have greater control over its processes than GM could even dream of... oops, bad example!
 
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Laura M

#45
Your right Spaceman. 10 man thing-a-magig shops have great training - one screw up means alot of $$ for these companies. The few small shops I'm dealing with right now are so maticulous and thorough...most are just catching up on documenting because the standards require it. Most "do the right thing" because their operation depends on it. The big companies are the ones that have trouble keeping track of who does, or should be doing what.
 
M

M. Savramis

#46
Spaceman and Laura I agree with you. Yes maybe some 10 men shops do have better process control and thats great. If they don't want to be certified to any standard I have nothing against that.As spaceman stated you can tell your customer to go elsewhere. How many times are your small shops willing to do that?? You know very well that tier 1 suppliers are asking for certification to QS or ISO from their subcontractors, but with no extra cost factored into the equation. As a matter a fact the new buzz word for this decade at least, is going to be COST REDUCTION!! I can tell you from experience that we are already starting to de-source subcontractors that have or are not willing to take their organization to the next level and as far as new subcontractors we don't even look at them if they are not certified to a known standard. Don't get me wrong I understand where you're coming from and I agree. However at some point smaller organizations will be forced to re-assess their views on certification and their customers are the ones who will drive that.
 
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Laura M

#47
The biggest addition to small shops that QS adds is the "formal problem solving" approach. Many are used to "wing-ing" that - 5-why, 8-D's etc are supplied by the customer, but they don't know what to do with them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for certification, but if the standard keeps changing it will get very frustrating for those small shops that are only doing it because they have to.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
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#48
Originally posted by M. Savramis:

As a matter a fact the new buzz word for this decade at least, is going to be COST REDUCTION!! I can tell you from experience that we are already starting to de-source subcontractors that have or are not willing to take their organization to the next level and as far as new subcontractors we don't even look at them if they are not certified to a known standard. Don't get me wrong I understand where you're coming from and I agree. However at some point smaller organizations will be forced to re-assess their views on certification and their customers are the ones who will drive that.
You've been living in a closed world if you think cost reduction is a new issue. Ask anyone at GM about PICOS. This is ages old.

Yes - everyone appears to be requiring ISO9000 (or QS). I have this to say:

If you run with the herd you may run over the cliff with the rest of the herd. It is obvious ISO9000 has reached the zenith of ignorance. You have a supplier who has been supplying good product for years and you 'decertify' them because they won't register to ISO. Sad, sad, sad....
 
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Laura M

#49
And if they've been running good product for years, they are more than likely "compliant", maybe just not registered...
 
S

Spaceman Spiff

#50
Just to add my 2 cents' worth... when you have a bunch of rules and laws (and ISO, QS, TS, etc. certainly have them) then it is easy to become legalistic. The purpose of certification is to ensure a company has good solid practices and processes. If a company can do that without certification, then certification is of little to no value added to that company. The goal of any company should still be providing the best quality at a reasonable price that mutually benefits both the customer and supplier. In my innocent days I used to wonder how did Honda and Toyota ever built quality products in the early 1980's without ISO. Now I know, they had a system that was beyond what ISO/QS can ever dream up.

Like Marc says, if you are dropping a supplier just because they don't have a ISO/QS flag flapping in the wind, then shame on you. I think we all need a sanity check on this certification stuff.
 
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