Willful case of circumvention of our Control of Nonconforming Product procedure

Russ

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
I have found out about a willful case of circumvention of our Control of Nonconforming Product procedure and the standard itself. Here's the scenario. A problem was found with a dimension out of tolerance, yet those in charge of MRB let this baby go (functionality mindset) even without keeping them seperate throughout the rest of the production process. So they got mixed up with good parts and now we have several thousand parts returned to check through. They also have left no paper trail for these nonconforming parts, which is directly contrary to our or I would think anyone's procedures, and definitely the ISO standard. After finding out all I can and these facts hold true, can anyone think of a reason why I shouldn't send a Nonconformance to the members of the MRB who failed to follow proper procedure?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Crystal clear..

In one word: No...

Judging from the facts given, a nonconformance should be the least of the MRB's worries. It's not only contrary to the standard. It's also contrary to both common sense and buisness sense.

/Claes
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#3
I think Claes is right-on. The ONLY possible reason I could think of not to do it is if I knew the MRB guys were a hopeless bunch of renegades and they would get by with it and my boss was in there and would fire me for doing it. Then I would KNOW, if I didn't before, I had to get out of that company. I'd drop the NC and only stay there 'till I could get another job, then scram, ASAP!
 
J
#4
I quite agree that the MRB needs a non-conformance written.

How you handle this is going to be very important.

How long has the board been operating?
What is the track record of the board in the past?
How committed are they?

I will assume that they are not a bunch of idiots and already know that they screwed up royally. BUT do they know how badly they screwed up?

Do they know how much this has cost the company?

I suggest doing a cost analysis of the rejection and sorting as compared to other options available to MRB at the time. This way when looking at future decisions they will have greater understanding of the potential costs of their decisions.

This of course is part and parcel of your corrective action cycle to close the NC you've written.

JMHO

James
 
E

energy

#5
Be careful

If you proceed to write up the MRB Board, tread carefully. Usually, they are upper managers who will not appreciate seeing that they willfully concealed defective product in writing. Also, results of Audits are available to External Auditors. Not a good thing, exposing cases of misconduct to others. :( Maybe I'm just a scaredy cat because I've seen too many times where the blame falls on those who least deserve it. Even though they can prove they aren't responsible. The key here is "prove to who?" That stuff truly rolls downhill. We all know the old saying about winning the battle and losing the war. Take a step back, a deep breath and give it some more thought. JMHO :ko: :smokin:
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Issue the CAR. And let them know that for many registrars that intentionally shipping N/C product without a Deviation could result in suspension of the QMS registration not to mention possible lawsuit. Let us know what happens
 

Russ

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Well thanks for all the response. I jumped in and wrote it up, so I'm waiting for the fallout now. I'm afraid I couldn't feel good about the job I'm doing if I let that one pass. Maybe I just take my job too seriously, but that's what I'm paid to do. No the MRB guys aren't a bunch of idiots, just too "functional" oriented sometimes. They realize they really blew it on this one, and they are taking a lot of heat from the VP. Then from me:bonk:

I hate to pour salt on the wound, but I figured I just might get some changes made if I took advantage of this opportunity to show them the error of their ways. I know it happens more than I see so their not fooling me there.
 
E

energy

#8
Are they certified?

gpainter said:

Issue the CAR. And let them know that for many registrars that intentionally shipping N/C product without a Deviation could result in suspension of the QMS registration not to mention possible lawsuit. Let us know what happens
If they are registered, then I agree with it. If not, you don't have the "They could pull your certification" to use. All you have is your job to lose. I'm not saying to let it go. If the CEO is not on the MRB, he can do something about it. Pride comith before the fall. What you would do is not always the best advice to give. Your options may be many, as opposed to someone who has none.

:ko: :smokin:
 
#9
Use the opportunity

Russ said:

I hate to pour salt on the wound, but I figured I just might get some changes made if I took advantage of this opportunity to show them the error of their ways. I know it happens more than I see so their not fooling me there.
So now you have their attention, and intend to use the opportunity to get some changes made. I'd say you're right on track. If the dust settles in the right places this mishap may turn out to your great advantage.

Good luck.

/Claes
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#10
We're having computer system problems, so I hope this goes thru okay, I gotta make it quick. Energy's post got me thinking that I engaged my typing hand before fully engaging my brain and explaining things out. What I would do would depend somewhat on the status of my QMS (registered or not, new or established registration, etc.) and the culture of the place. One way or the other, unless raising a stink would cost me my job before I was ready (see earlier post), I would want to see the MRB guys held accountable, otherwise things can get really out of hand. I've been there! Maybe, rather than documenting it formally so any customer or registration auditor could easily find it, possibly costing a customer or registration, depending on the culture, dragging the MRB before the head honcho for a little talk session would accomplish the goal with out costing the company bigger $ than already lost. You don't want to cut off your nose to spite your face. If the top dog is supportive, a "stern lecture" from him/her in private may be the best way to go. Again, it depends.
 
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