Writing our Standard Operating Procedures - Examples wanted

B

brahmaiah

#31
I disagree that SOP is a 'technical term' or even a 'unique' thing. What's technical or unique about it? Nothing to my mind.

A Standard Operating Procedure is, as Peter points out, a type of procedure. Adding 'Standard Operating' to the start of that just adds words - after all, don't we want or expect people to follow procedures in any case? Not to mention the unpleasant SOP acronym! I suspect this may well be more 'technical' and 'unique' in particular environments - perhaps particularly the automative manufacturing ones you appear to be very familiar with. Many of my clients would sooner die than have things called 'SOPs' to contend with - well not die, perhaps, but they don't like the term and don't want it.


You haven't offered any convincing argument here - clearly you prefer them all to be Very Different Things. Fine - go right ahead. But I doubt the rest of the world will follow or agree.
Here is a version of SOP which I gathered from a Japanese consultant but adopted to my machine.Note there is no one who can match japanese in Quality.
 

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Peter Fraser

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#32
Here is a version of SOP which I gathered from a Japanese consultant but adopted to my machine.Note there is no one who can match japanese in Quality.
Looks like a Work Instruction to me! [Just an opinion...]

This will obviously not work for non-manufacturing processes, so the relevance is at once less than universal. And remember that the term SOP is used in a variety of situations and a variety of ways. I know one police force that has 200+ "policies", and each one has a corresponding "SOP", allegedly to describe how the policy is implemented. But some are detailed descriptions of processes and others are reference notes which may be vaguely relevant and useful but don't actually tell you how to do anything.

The key thing is to make sure that everyone who needs to know what the term (any term!) means in a particular situation has a common understanding - and also to make sure that the term is not used in a way which is patently inappropriate and misleading.
 
I

ISO 9001 Guy

#33
Not sure what you mean here. The 'process approach' doesn't dictate either a particular format or a template.
What I mean is, adopt a format. As you suggest, the standard doesn't prescribe one, but QMS documents reasonably will have a consistent format. So, I advise to adopt a good, reasonable format. And then use it to document the QMS using the process approach. This will result in tailored, yet consistent documentation.
This is different from adopting a template procedure. A pre-written procedure, or one that is cut-and-paste from another organization or from a book, will never be a good solution. QMSs developed in this fashion are most costly than most care to understand.
So, adopt a format, not a template. :)
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#34
What I mean is, adopt a format. As you suggest, the standard doesn't prescribe one, but QMS documents reasonably will have a consistent format. So, I advise to adopt a good, reasonable format. And then use it to document the QMS using the process approach. This will result in tailored, yet consistent documentation.
This is different from adopting a template procedure. A pre-written procedure, or one that is cut-and-paste from another organization or from a book, will never be a good solution. QMSs developed in this fashion are most costly than most care to understand.
So, adopt a format, not a template. :)
"Format" and "template" aren't mutually exclusive entities. A template may be used to facilitate consistent use of a prescribed format. We have to determine the elements necessary for documentation such that the elements are used consistently, so a template (something that demonstrates the format) isn't an alternative to a format, it's a guide for proper formatting.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#35
SOP = "Standard Operating Procedure", so it is by definition a type of "procedure". To my mind, the use of the words "Standard" and "Operating" add nothing, since i) if a procedure isn't standard then by implication you may or may not have to follow it, and ii) I can't think of an example of a procedure which describes how not to do something (ie "operate").

And I find that "Work Instruction" is normally used to describe in more detail how a specific task should be carried out.
Part of the problem here is the word "procedure," which should (imo) be seen not as a document, but as synonymous with "process." This is why the standards refer to documented procedures. Read documented processes. Thus the document is separate from the procedure or process. What most people refer to as "SOP" (an ugly old military term) or "procedure" in the old "tiered" documentation systems is (or should be) a simple description of a process. This is why a graphical description (a flowchart) will often suffice. It's also why I have always referred to this type of documentation not as a procedure, or SOP, but as a "process description."
 
I

ISO 9001 Guy

#36
I was not really trying to be technical with the term format. The standard requires documented procedures. A document, per ISO, is information and its supporting medium. To convey processes to personnel using documented procedures, it is my simple advice to adopt a format--whatever it might be. Then use your selected format (procedures, flowcharts, process models, etc.) to describe your own processes. That's all I was trying to say.
And by saying--not a template, I was hoping to imply a difference between adopting a vehicle for conveying information and adopting a pre-written procedure. Sorry to cause any confusion!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#37
And by saying--not a template, I was hoping to imply a difference between adopting a vehicle for conveying information and adopting a pre-written procedure. Sorry to cause any confusion!
Thanks for the clarification. :agree1: Based on past discussions here, I think there's a strong consensus that "canned" documentation without significant customization isn't a good idea.
 
B

brahmaiah

#38
Looks like a Work Instruction to me! [Just an opinion...]

This will obviously not work for non-manufacturing processes, so the relevance is at once less than universal. And remember that the term SOP is used in a variety of situations and a variety of ways. I know one police force that has 200+ "policies", and each one has a corresponding "SOP", allegedly to describe how the policy is implemented. But some are detailed descriptions of processes and others are reference notes which may be vaguely relevant and useful but don't actually tell you how to do anything.

The key thing is to make sure that everyone who needs to know what the term (any term!) means in a particular situation has a common understanding - and also to make sure that the term is not used in a way which is patently inappropriate and misleading.
Main focus of a QMS is manufacturing industry although it is not officially stated any where.Specially TS16949 is focussed on automotive parts manufacturer.Designing a generic SOP suitable to all businesses and administrative set-ups will be difficult.
V.J.Brahmaiah
 
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B

brahmaiah

#40
:confused: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lol:
I don't know where you such ideas from... (no, that wasn't a question, not even a rhetorical one).
Taking a small segment of my letter and commenting on that is out of context.Well I have said that it is not official.
V.J.Brahmaiah
 
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