Writing our Standard Operating Procedures - Examples wanted

K

kev4791

#51
Just to follow up on previous. Wouldnt' these procedures already be outlined within your Manual, so do they need expanding and reiterating on separate documents?????
 
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harry

Super Moderator
#52
It seems to me that you are trying to fit what your organization does around the requirements of the standard - which shouldn't be the way to go.

For a start, why not identify the processes that a project goes through from enquiry stage to tender stage and then to completion (as practiced in your organization). We can help you from there on.
 
K

kev4791

#53
Hi Harry,

I have drawn up an outline proces map for both the tender stage and contract delivery, but this still needs finalising and the actual processes clearly identified/defined. Once this is done do I need to write up an individual document for each one???
 

harry

Super Moderator
#54
Hi Harry,

I have drawn up an outline proces map for both the tender stage and contract delivery, but this still needs finalising and the actual processes clearly identified/defined. Once this is done do I need to write up an individual document for each one???
If your processes are drawn up according to how your organization operates, you would generally have one or more procedures to cover each (or several) of them and within it identify how you meet the requirements.

Example, you will normally have an inspection & test procedure where you identify what you inspect, who, when & where and what equipments you use. Normally this is where calibration comes in. Work instructions to describe in more detail such as sampling of concrete and relevant forms to record data will come in next.
 
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K

kev4791

#55
Harry,

I may be getting things wrong here, but...

Within my quality system manual e.g. under Procedure 04 Document Control 4.2.3 it has 2/3 paragrpahs which define where the master copies are stored, who has access, who issues documents, how drawings are marked/superseded etc etc.

Is this not sufficient without writing a separate procedure. Maybe my manual is in the wrong format but never had any issues previously.

This is possibly why my manual seems a bit long winded. Its roughly 40 pages long. Bear in mind I ain't no Quality Manager officially, just an engineer who is trying to develop a better system.!
 
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harry

Super Moderator
#56
..........Within my quality system manual e.g. under Procedure 04 Document Control 4.2.3 it has 2/3 paragrpahs which define where the master copies are stored, who has access, who issues documents, how drawings are marked/superseded etc etc.

Is this not sufficient without writing a separate procedure. Maybe my manual is in the wrong format but never had any issues previously.............
Document control will come in elsewhere also - such as construction control or operations or whatever you name it as well as contract management. For operations, you need to control the documents at 'site'. If it is not covered in your Doc. control procedure, just describe it in your your operations procedure. If it is covered, just referenced it.
 
J

JaneB

#57
This is possibly why my manual seems a bit long winded. Its roughly 40 pages long. Bear in mind I ain't no Quality Manager officially, just an engineer who is trying to develop a better system.!
Great - keep going on 'trying to develop a better system' and avoid the long-winded, verbose and over-documented monstrosities.

Harry's given you good advice. Keep going along the lines you're going...

There are way too many long-winded so-called 'Quality Manuals' around. Don't add to 'em.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#58
Question....Can I combine our procedures and work instructions into one document and just call them WORK INSTRUCTIONS???.......

Sorry, I haven't had the time to read thru this thread to find my answer......:)

Thanks for your help!!
That is up to you. In many cases, it probably makes sense. It does not matter what you call them.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#59
Harry,

I may be getting things wrong here, but...

Within my quality system manual e.g. under Procedure 04 Document Control 4.2.3 it has 2/3 paragrpahs which define where the master copies are stored, who has access, who issues documents, how drawings are marked/superseded etc etc.

Is this not sufficient without writing a separate procedure. Maybe my manual is in the wrong format but never had any issues previously.

This is possibly why my manual seems a bit long winded. Its roughly 40 pages long. Bear in mind I ain't no Quality Manager officially, just an engineer who is trying to develop a better system.!
While you don't want to be unnecessarily long-winded, don't make the number of pages your primary focus. It is irrelevant. Write what you want to say to your auditence, and keep improving content. That is the only thing that matters. The last manual I wrote was 30+ pages, but it had good content.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#60
While you don't want to be unnecessarily long-winded, don't make the number of pages your primary focus. It is irrelevant. Write what you want to say to your auditence, and keep improving content. That is the only thing that matters. The last manual I wrote was 30+ pages, but it had good content.
This is good advice, imo--the manual should be as big as it needs to be, and if it takes 30 pages, that's OK. One of the problems I frequently see that leads to excessive volume in QMs is wordiness, however. Too many words are used to express a thought or requirement, often in the belief that using a lot of words somehow adds gravity to the text. It doesn't--it just makes it more difficult to read and understand, and diminishes the likelihood that anyone will use or read the manual.

To demonstrate, I picked a manual more or less at random from the Post Attachments list, and selected the following passage:

The company shall establish and maintain a documented procedure for the identification, storage, retrieval, protection and disposal of quality records. These quality records demonstrate conformance to requirements and effective operation of the QMS.
Individual departments or functions will be responsible for the collation, maintenance and disposal of relevant records. In general, such records are normally maintained for a defined retention period of 5 years. However where required for legal or knowledge retention purposes, this retention period may be longer.


This can be compressed as follows without loss of meaning:


We have a documented procedure for quality records that satisfies the requirements of the standard. Each department is responsible for maintenance and disposal of records. Records are maintained for five years, except in cases where business needs dictate a different period.

The passage has been reduced by half without losing anything meaningful. The manual from whence came the original runs to 32 pages; it could probably be reduced in size by half just by fixing the wordiness of it.
 
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