Yet another reason not to join the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
I'm sorry for your bad experience. Years before I joined what was then ASQC, according to old timers in my sections, we had a similar dismal aspect to our meeting presentations. Luckily for us, some of those old timers made an effort to get interesting and meaningful presenters who did NOT make one long sales pitch for their product or service, but instead concentrated on educational presentations which benefited members.

Similarly for the education sessions, the cost of many of which is limited to materials.

The tradition continues. If those old timers had just been discouraged and quit, we would not have the great stuff we have today. Their dedication to the profession has inspired me and others to step up and do our part.
There are some benefits to be had at the local level, although I agree with somerqc's view on the general quality of presentations at local meetings. That's mainly due to the general paucity of qualified presenters, but one would think that section leadership would realize the limited value of having a continual string of self-promoting consultants after a while.

As far as networking is concerned, it too starts to lose value at the point when you realize that you're networking with the same relatively small group of people every month, many of whom have nothing interesting to say.

The point I was trying to make in initiating this thread still stands. ASQ "leadership" regularly violates its own code of ethics, is unresponsive to people genuinely interested in improving things (oh, the irony!) and shows no signs of thinking that things even need to be improved. Personally, I can't bring myself to financially support that sort of thing, and I think that things will change only when enough people stop sending in their money every year. I support the principles of the organization by refusing to be a member of it.
 
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C

Chris Ford

I just received an e-mail message from ASQ, and they want me to join. As an incentive they dangled this little gem in front of me:
The asterisk leads to a footnote that says, "*2008, The William E. Smith Institute for Association Research." So a-Googling I went, and found the website of the institute, and therein a press release (PDF) trumpeting the report referred to in the ASQ solicitation. In part, that press release says,
(My emphasis)

So--- ASQ is clearly suggesting that membership in associations leads to happiness, more money and increased job satisfaction, while the information upon which the contention is based clearly says the exact opposite.

Sounds like a good reason not to join this particular association.
You couldn't have said that better, Jim. :agree1: I was a member for years - I joined ASQ almost immediately after getting my first job in quality. I bought that line of crap hook, line and sinker! It's a good organization with tons of resources, excellent partnerships, etc. but membership does NOT make someone a more appealing candidate. There is no prestige in membership - there are no career-bolstering stories... It's a giant club - that's all. In fact, certification by ASQ doesn't really have any benefit either. ASQ certification is a "peer certification" yet they advertise that certified auditors / engineers / etc. earn $20-30K more per year. All you need in order to attain a CQA certification is a checkbook or credit card, and a few hours on a Saturday afternoon. I think they'll even provide you with the number 2 pencil. There is no training, no assessment, no trial by fire... there's just a test that you pay a few hundred bucks for.

My last CQA expired several months ago and I have no intention to renew. That goes for my ASQ membership as well. I've been hired for quite a few audits this past year, and in every case the clients asked for a copy of my ISO 13485 certificate and weren't interested in the CQA.
 
J

JaneB

Pity. I gave up on the local equivalent here for very similar reasons. And while I too believe its important to have & support one's professional association, that belief wore thin and then wore out.
 
I

ISO Druid

I finally gave up on ASQ years ago including my senior membership and CQA certification. I did not feel that they effectively upheld their ethics guidelines. When I first went for the CQA refresher the instructor stated and documented in his training materials that he was a certified lead auditor. He was not ... so I contacted ASQ and who made him revise his statements and documents ... but not before he attempted to find out who in his class had complained. Real professional ... no?
Our local ASQ employment chair ... did he return any calls from me and any of my employer referrals? No! Did ASQ take EFFECTIVE take action? No!
How about a well known consultant and ISO author that I am personal friends with that traveled a long distance at his own cost to met with my local ASQ management, went over his seminar materials, was asked to leave his materials for review, was not invited to do the presentation and had his training materials presented by this same ASQ section without compensating him? Sad but true.
Members from the local ASQ made slanderous comments including accusations of theft of thousands of dollars by a former ASQ chair (none of these corroborated) while seminar attendees filed in. Did ASQ take EFFECTIVE action? No!
And how is ASQ represented? How about a certified quality manager that slanders contractors? That complaint is pending ....
Fair competition in getting articles published in ASQ? Forget about it ...
we ran into censorship ... apparently the Ford/Firestone controversy was slanted ... at least in the coverage we saw. ASQ refused to publish the article detailed everything that the registrar was to have complied with per QS-9000 (at the time) and the Big Three interpretations. IQA (now CQI) publishes member comments with no censorship or bias ... and in several languages. This bias by ASQ is not obvious unless you've audited and certified at an international level and have submitted articles for publication that eventually get published elsewhere. Its a clique in that office!
Shame on ASQ for not upholding its ethics standards to the fullest ... IMHO its just a money making machine that gets the top priority.
Sorry for venting but ASQ has burned myself and friends and is not in our high esteem.
On the other hand I have had the utmost respect for Institute of Quality Assurance (now CQI).
Again .... just my opinion based on ASQ related events that personally occurred to myself and friends and peers over the years.
IMHO
:mad:
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
The attached file is an ASQ ad promoting AS9100C. Funny that several years ago a (to remain unnamed) British Certification Body was taken to court in the UK and forced to change their advertisements for something very close to what ASQ is doing. I.e., making unsupported claims such as
AS9100C will lead your organization to:
• Better operations
• Improved performance
• Improved profitability
One thing is to state AS9100C WILL lead....another one is to state AS9100 might lead....

And, in ASQ form, the link at the bottom of the ad is not working....:frust:
 

Attachments

J

John Martinez

My ASQ membership renewal is coming up. I'm out auditing so I have not made local meetings for a few years. I have not obtained their certifications because I'm IRCA certified. I'm considering letting it lapse.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
My ASQ membership renewal is coming up. I'm out auditing so I have not made local meetings for a few years. I have not obtained their certifications because I'm IRCA certified. I'm considering letting it lapse.
I just paid mine, for the 13th year in a row. That's $1500 out of pocket. But, it is worth it because:

1. to support our industry association,
2. to meet people in our industry,
3. to improve out industry,
4. some standards, like TS, now have a continuing education requirement.

I don't get a lot of direct tangible benefit out of my membership, but it is good to support the industry.

I think this discussion ought to focus on how we can IMPROVE ASQ, not whether we need it...
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
I just paid mine, for the 13th year in a row. That's $1500 out of pocket. But, it is worth it because:

1. to support our industry association,
2. to meet people in our industry,
3. to improve out industry,
4. some standards, like TS, now have a continuing education requirement.

I don't get a lot of direct tangible benefit out of my membership, but it is good to support the industry.

I think this discussion ought to focus on how we can IMPROVE ASQ, not whether we need it...
How does ASQ membership "support the industry"?
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
I just paid mine, for the 13th year in a row. That's $1500 out of pocket. But, it is worth it because:

1. to support our industry association,
2. to meet people in our industry,
3. to improve out industry,
4. some standards, like TS, now have a continuing education requirement.

I don't get a lot of direct tangible benefit out of my membership, but it is good to support the industry.

I think this discussion ought to focus on how we can IMPROVE ASQ, not whether we need it...
I hope you mean $1500 for 13 years total. Or are you including all certifications?
My dues for the upcoming year will be about $150, including my Section and Division memberships (no current certs - all expired, no plans to renew any.)

I think I may explore whether I can get an old guy's discount (retired status) instead of paying full fee as a senior member. I'm no longer interested in getting "Fellow" status, but it would have been nice to get the recognition when I was active and contributing education and mentoring to the profession.

Frankly, I felt like Quixote tilting at windmills when I started ranting about the trend of our HQ paid staff going more and more toward cozying up to insider consultants like Mikel Harry and ignoring the rank and file membership - this was about the same time our rank and file membership began to drop precipitously.

Alas, I was unable to form a coalition to join me in a grass roots movement to get strong minded elected officials to throw the paid staff out and start over. So now we have an Executive Director who drags down $300,000 plus an extensive basket of benefits and expense accounts and a membership down more than 25,000 members in the past ten years. My "esp" tells me the next ten years will only bring more of the same unless and until we members retake control of our association. If we quit, we just give up and let the gonifs win.
 
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