Yet another reason not to join the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

[ScottK]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

Personally I think it's the parent organization that sucks.

I've had very positive experiences at the local level from regular meetings to annual conferences.

Oh - And I just received my updated certificate for CMQ/OE... and the text that is custom printed on the blank form is crooked.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

Personally I think it's the parent organization that sucks.

I've had very positive experiences at the local level from regular meetings to annual conferences.

Oh - And I just received my updated certificate for CMQ/OE... and the text that is custom printed on the blank form is crooked.

I agree that there are some benefits at the local level, but what bothers me is that Milwaukee engages in outright dishonesty in recruiting--they engage in similar prevarications in touting the alleged benefits of certification--and no one at the local level seems to care. Looking past it by saying, "Oh, it's just advertising" doesn't address the issue. ASQ needs to look at its own code of ethics and abide by it.

 

[Brizilla]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

I guess I am going to step in here and add my comments. (I was trying to avoid placing my opinion on this subject.)

For over 8 years I didn't renew my membership in the ASQ for other reasons. I have since rejoined. The ASQ have some issues that they need to consider: How their membership feels and take the appropriate actions.

Yes their forum is one of the non-value added services, because of their (Powers to be) continuing ignorance on what the Membership wants. There are the Powers to be in the oval office (not the White House) that think their opinions are the only ones that count.

The Powers to be, need to consider what would happen if all of the current memberships decided not to renew.

As for cost value to being part of the membership is, here is what I see as a minimum:

1. Networking tools
2. Knowledgeable members (the majority)
3. Valuable information for the most part
4. The certification program for those who wish to receive certification on the Body of Knowledge

We all know how some people feel about the ASQ Membership, and I for one don't agree with everything the ASQ does. But, there is definite value to the membership, in my opinion, and we don't want to start bashing the ASQ here.

Well, we do kinda...
I agree with everything that Coury says. There is value...and it's worth the price of admission for what you get. Unfortunately ASQ is sort of an elitist organization, so don't expect too much for your membership. You CAN get alot out of it with some effort and starting out in the middle of the socio/economic hierarchy of your field.
Even our meetings (NorthEast Illinois chapter) do little to encourage the membership of basic quality employees. What's the first thing they do in a meeting? Standup, state your name, title, company and what ASQ certifications they have. Some have a lot. Now as a Quality manager who came up through the ranks with 19 years in the trenches, even I found this a little intimidating. Like, maybe I didn't belong there. What would it feel to a normal inspector? Bad, my last company signed up all of their half dozen inspectors to membership. Three went to one meeting, two went to two meetings and one went to three. the reasoning? One felt it wasn't worth the time staying away from her kids for a night, the other five felt they were "out of their league" and were uncomfortable at the meetings.
My biggest problem with ASQ was the **** poor training it has developed for the lower levels in Quality, the foundation of inspection, the inspectors. There is very little training, development or support for inspectors and basic quality auditors. It would be nice to be able to recommend someone in Mfg. who wants to get into quality by saying "Yeah, get some of that ASQC training and that will give you the basics for a firm foundation in Quality."
Yeah right. For an organization that is supposed to represent the Quality industry, they're sure making little effort to make that industry bigger or stronger at its foundation. Okay, my rant is over.

Briz

 

[Geoff Withnell]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

I agree that there are some benefits at the local level, but what bothers me is that Milwaukee engages in outright dishonesty in recruiting--they engage in similar prevarications in touting the alleged benefits of certification--and no one at the local level seems to care. Looking past it by saying, "Oh, it's just advertising" doesn't address the issue. ASQ needs to look at its own code of ethics and abide by it.

Jim, I agree tat things in Milwaukee are not as they should be. What I will not agree with is "no one at the local level seems to care". There are quite a few of us who are working to try to make things better. There are a number of us working to get the web board updated, for example. I am the moderator on the ASQ Quality Management discussion board, and while I can't edit posts on other boards, if i report spam on another board, it is promptly taken care of. The Society got pretty far off course for a while, looking more to the interests of consultants and the paid staff, rather than the membership as a whole. The whole Six Sigma/Michael George fiasco is a prime example, and we are just starting to recover now.

That said, I think overall, ASQ provides more service for less (we are one of the cheaper professional societies to join) than most societies. I am a member of several. This is primarily due to the huge amount of work done by the volunteers at the section and division level. I have had the great honor to work with many very knowlegible, intelligent and other wise great human beings in several chapters. I am a Senior Member, and have been on the board of 5 different sections during my 40 year career in Quality.

BTW, ASQ and the original researcher were both wrong in ascribing cause to one of the two variables in a correlation with out some knowledge what the causitive relation is. I would suspect in this case, there is a considerable feedback effect, and neither is truly the independent cause, and the other the effect.

Geoff Withnell
Senior Member ASQ, CMQ/OE, CQE, CQA, CSSBB, CSQE,
Member PMI, PMP

 

[Doug Tropf]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

I have been a member of ASQ for three + years and agree that the ASQ forum doesn't measure up to the high benchmark set by the Cove.

I achieved ASQ CQA certification last year and have found the certification to be well recognized and of value when the topic of internal auditor qualifications comes up during our 2nd and 3rd party audits. Additionally, I believe I learned alot about the auditing function in preparing for the exam - time well spent. I am not aware of how beneficial the certification would be on one's resume as I have not been in the job market in a number of years.

I have found some useful information on ASQ's web site and occassionally in their magazine.

I am a couple of hours drive from my chapter's meeting locations so I have not been able to attend meetings or network to any degree.

All things considered, I believe my association with ASQ has been beneficial and at this time I plan to continue my membership.

 

[SteelMaiden]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

I will have to admit that because of the distance from my section's meetings, I do not attend, especially at today's gas prices. If the meetings were on Friday night, and I could stay in the city, I would consider it, but driving 2 hours to, and 2 hours from and then having to go to work at early thirty the next morning is not really a thrilling prospect for me. I have nothing at all against ASQ, I am a senior member, I have not taken advantage of the certifications, but my company likes the fact that I am a member, and I use the member discounts on products. As far as the forums go, they have a really tough example to follow with the Cove, and like many organizations, they seem to get bogged down in politics that hinder the growth and improvement of the forums to match what I would consider THE benchmark for professional forums.

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

I agree that there are some benefits at the local level, but what bothers me is that Milwaukee engages in outright dishonesty in recruiting--they engage in similar prevarications in touting the alleged benefits of certification--and no one at the local level seems to care. Looking past it by saying, "Oh, it's just advertising" doesn't address the issue. ASQ needs to look at its own code of ethics and abide by it.

To qualify for dishonesty we would have to know intent. That's the hard part, especially given how many, many people I have observed lacking the ability to consistently analyze cause and effect with accuracy.

Second consideration is who wrote that ad, who approved it and what went on behind it. We do not know, so deception isn't clear.

But shouldn't an organization like ASQ know better? Sure. They are not off the hook, but the hook shouldn't be one of being disingenuous; it should be one of acting in an ignorant manner that resulted in misrepresentation.


Arguably the ad is meant for a demographic who will not analyze the ad so deeply. That doesn't mean for sure it was intended for suckers, though it may have been. To claim myself as a critical thinker I need to acknowledge that.

Does it in fact speak the truth? Let's analyze. Through the process of preparing for getting the CQT, CQE and CQA (CMI was a cakewalk) I have grown geometrically. I can't think of any single better thing I could have done to get me where I am now: better job, better pay, better prospects and, since I value those things, yeah I am happier. So maybe the ad is true, but in a circular kind of way. Maybe it's all about the beholder.

 

[qualityos]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

ASQ... what can I say?

From the ASQ website, the top reasons to join are:

1. Professional Development
2. Credibility with Customers
3. Access to Information
4. On-Demand Access
5. Networking
6. Solutions

The first point states that you can access their career center and get discounts on classes, books, and certifications. Sounds more like a Sams club and not a community/organization.

Credibility with Customers... I would have to agree with this point. As soon as I put ASQ certified Six Sigma Black Belt after my name, I got more respect from my Big 3 customers. So I would say that this is a benefit.

Three of the next four point refer to the library, solutions, mentoring programs, forums, magazine, etc... Still trying to sell us something and the rest is of questionable value. I can not attest to the quality of the case studies and other articles that they have, so I can only speculate that a lot of their material is similar to the information available on sites like Isixsimga.com

Networking... if you are a consultant or are selling a product to the industry, I would say that it is a good value. I am going to be selling my own FMEA software soon and I will absolutely be getting a membership so I can make some good contacts. But otherwise it depends on you.

ASQ is absolutely a company which is looking to make a profit. Nothing wrong with that, but to sell it as a "membership" I think is stretching it a bit. The benefits of membership are not very apparent to me at least.

The current ASQ membership fee is $129 for a year. You can start your own "quality community" on facebook or meetup.com for $12 per month and probably get a better sense of community/membership than at ASQ.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

To qualify for dishonesty we would have to know intent. That's the hard part, especially given how many, many people I have observed lacking the ability to consistently analyze cause and effect with accuracy.

Second consideration is who wrote that ad, who approved it and what went on behind it. We do not know, so deception isn't clear.

But shouldn't an organization like ASQ know better? Sure. They are not off the hook, but the hook shouldn't be one of being disingenuous; it should be one of acting in an ignorant manner that resulted in misrepresentation.

For years ASQ has knowingly (I know, because I've informed them more than once, as have others I know of) represented benefits of certification dishonestly by alleging a causal effect of certification on higher pay. They have no data to back up the claim. While it may be true that on average certified people make more money than uncertified people, there's no evidence that certification is the cause, or that certification is likely to result in higher pay. This is a direct violation of their code of ethics, which requires "Being honest and impartial in serving the public, their employers, customers, and clients."

Furthermore, if it's true that the present misrepresentation is due to incompetence, Article 2 of the code has been violated. It says that members must "Perform services only in their areas of competence."

 

[Tim Folkerts]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

Stats for The Elsmar Cove (25-JUL-08):

Total Registered Visitors: 61,815
New Registrations This Month: 2172
​

We aren't quite to the end of the month, so a few more will certainly register, which is a rate of 25,000 - 30,000 per year. At this rate, the Cove will top 100,000 Registered Visitors sometime early in 2010.

By Mid-2010, The Cove is on track to have more registered members than ASQ!

Granted many of the Registered Visitors are never active, but the same is true of ASQ. At a time when membership is steady or slipping at ASQ, people are flocking to the Cove. This says a lot about the two groups.