Yet another reason not to join the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

[Coury Ferguson]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

For years ASQ has knowingly (I know, because I've informed them more than once, as have others I know of) represented benefits of certification dishonestly by alleging a causal effect of certification on higher pay. They have no data to back up the claim. While it may be true that on average certified people make more money than uncertified people, there's no evidence that certification is the cause, or that certification is likely to result in higher pay.

As for the data on more $$$ for certifications: They are most likely using the Salary Survey to base this on. However, this is another misleading (I say misleading only because it is only offered to ASQ Members to participate) statement. I have been asked twice in the last couple of years (once when I was a member..early 2000, and once recently since I renewed) to participate.

I still strongly feel the ASQ does provide a lot of benefits and cost value (not necessarily $$$) with the Membership.

 

[Tim Folkerts]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

As for the data on more $$$ for certifications: They are most likely using the Salary Survey to base this on. However, this is another misleading (I say misleading only because it is only offered to ASQ Members to participate) statement. I have been asked twice in the last couple of years (once when I was a member..early 2000, and once recently since I renewed) to participate.

It could also be misleading in that it is a voluntary, self-reported survey. Knowing human nature, I would expect that people who make an above-average salary will be proud of the fact and more likely to respond.

Furthermore, if it's true that the present misrepresentation is due to incompetence, Article 2 of the code has been violated. It says that members must "Perform services only in their areas of competence."

Of course, this assumes that the people who put that email together are ASQ Members! My guess is that they are not members ... simply low-level managers or secretaries, who thus are not bound by the Code of Ethics.

 

[JAltmann]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

Stats for The Elsmar Cove (25-JUL-08):

Total Registered Visitors: 61,815
New Registrations This Month: 2172
​

We aren't quite to the end of the month, so a few more will certainly register, which is a rate of 25,000 - 30,000 per year. At this rate, the Cove will top 100,000 Registered Visitors sometime early in 2010.

By Mid-2010, The Cove is on track to have more registered members than ASQ!

Granted many of the Registered Visitors are never active, but the same is true of ASQ. At a time when membership is steady or slipping at ASQ, people are flocking to the Cove. This says a lot about the two groups.

These statistics are slightly skewed, would memebership in "The Cove" still be this high if one had to pay for it? People will readily sign-up for free things, but if they had to pay i bet the numbers would be much lower.

I personally value my membership in the ASQ, but i am person who is interested in investing in myself through certifications and higher education. If one is complacent with their career level/position in the quality field then by all means don't join, it is not for everyone. If you want to grow your career the certifications and networking will definately help, but you are the driver, greatness will not be bistosed upon you simply but joining the ASQ.

I implore all in the quality field to join the ASQ or other quality organizations and become involved. If you don't like something work to make the changes you'd like to see. It is easy to sit back and point out other mistakes and flaws, but much more difficult to point out ones own.

 

[BradM]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

So--- ASQ is clearly suggesting that membership in associations leads to happiness, more money and increased job satisfaction, while the information upon which the contention is based clearly says the exact opposite.

Sounds like a good reason not to join this particular association.

So getting back to Jim's original post, I think he makes a good point with the above quote.

To me, it's a Practice What you Preach issue. Does ASQ suffer because they do not practice/ employ the fundamental principles so many of their members use everyday?

 

[BradM]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

JAltmann, good quote, and thanks for joining the discussion..

These statistics are slightly skewed, would membership in "The Cove" still be this high if one had to pay for it? People will readily sign-up for free things, but if they had to pay i bet the numbers would be much lower.

That is was statistics are for, isn't it? To skew??

I won't deny your suggestion, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that a substantially larger # of people are at the Cove (any time/any day) for quality issues than the American Society of Quality. That's sad to me.

Technically, all the discussion boards for ASQ come with membership, and there are a large number of public boards. There are more posts here in an hour, than in a day there (just guessing).

I personally value my membership in the ASQ, but i am person who is interested in investing in myself through certifications and higher education. If one is complacent with their career level/position in the quality field then by all means don't join, it is not for everyone. If you want to grow your career the certifications and networking will definately help, but you are the driver, greatness will not be bistosed upon you simply but joining the ASQ.

I implore all in the quality field to join the ASQ or other quality organizations and become involved. If you don't like something work to make the changes you'd like to see. It is easy to sit back and point out other mistakes and flaws, but much more difficult to point out ones own.

These are good points. But to me, you're making my case. I am ASQ, so are you, so is Coury, etc. We should have the right to offer suggestions, make the organization better, improve, etc., Instead, the organization's leadership seem to have a different agenda.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

Friends,

I am a long-time member of ASQ. Most of the benefits I have experienced were at the local ASQ Chapter. Local folks interested in (quality) topics of the day. Great opportunity for networking. I have been a speaker for many ASQ Chapters in NC and now beginning my "rounds" in SC. I like to give back for what I have gained and learned during all these years.

I had not much interaction with the ASQ "Head Office."

To use a political analogy: "All politics is local." And that's true for ASQ as well.

Good discussion. Strong feelings either way. Maybe we can look for ways to help the local ASQ Chapters. That way, everybody wins.

Stijloor.

 

[SteelMaiden]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

These are good points. But to me, you're making my case. I am ASQ, so are you, so is Coury, etc. We should have the right to offer suggestions, make the organization better, improve, etc., Instead, the organization's leadership seem to have a different agenda.

I kinda gotta agree with this, it seems like a lot of people I have met that do belong have offered suggestions to ASQ and nothing came of them...again, seems to be a very political animal.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

These statistics are slightly skewed, would memebership in "The Cove" still be this high if one had to pay for it? People will readily sign-up for free things, but if they had to pay i bet the numbers would be much lower.

Kinda I doubt that statement is totally true (my emphasis in bold).

If I was asked to pay for membership in the Cove, I would be more than happy to. This forum provides a lot a great information from all levels within the field of Quality and Business.

The Cove, is a person's dream, in my opinion. To receive information and answers to questions that they have, from all levels in quality and the business world.

I see that you are newly registered (within the last 7 months). Can you honestly say that the Cove has not been beneficial in your search for knowledge and answers?

I am not making my comments based upon being one of the Moderators. I am speaking from my feelings on how valuable the Cove has been in my career, which has expanded almost 25 years in the Quality Field.

 

[Duke Okes]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

A lot of good comments. My 2-cents:

- I've been a member of ASQ for 30 years, and have gotten a lot out of it. Knowledge, networking, recognition, growth, ... If you don't put anything in more than the $129 don't expect much out of it. Remember that a lean system pulls what it needs/wants. Don't expect ASQ to be your parent, feeding you what you need.

- Elsmar Cove is obviously a much better discussion board (and therefore source of rapid information), based on the number of posts, ease of use, features, etc.

- The ASQ ad quoting the research study is typical of what marketers do any just about any organization. Take what they like and spin it the way that will promote their desires. Truth is not valued very highly in our society, otherwise people would not watch network news, read advertising, vote for just about any politician, etc. I'm convinced a large proportion of society would rather be told what they want to hear, rather than what the truth is.

- We live in a capitalist society, so make your own decision about ASQ membership based on your own values (both personal and monetary).

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

A lot of good comments. My 2-cents:

- I've been a member of ASQ for 30 years, and have gotten a lot out of it. Knowledge, networking, recognition, growth, ... If you don't put anything in more than the $129 don't expect much out of it. Remember that a lean system pulls what it needs/wants. Don't expect ASQ to be your parent, feeding you what you need.

- Elsmar Cove is obviously a much better discussion board (and therefore source of rapid information), based on the number of posts, ease of use, features, etc.

- The ASQ ad quoting the research study is typical of what marketers do any just about any organization. Take what they like and spin it the way that will promote their desires. Truth is not valued very highly in our society, otherwise people would not watch network news, read advertising, vote for just about any politician, etc. I'm convinced a large proportion of society would rather be told what they want to hear, rather than what the truth is.

- We live in a capitalist society, so make your own decision about ASQ membership based on your own values (both personal and monetary).

What I'm seeing in this thread is (A) a lot of people saying that they feel that they have derived some benefit from ASQC membership and (B) a lot of dancing around the fact that the organization violates its own code of ethics in its solicitations. I'm glad for the benefits (although my own experience as a member was different) but if it's good for you, then good for you.

I look at it this way: if my first contact with any business is a blatantly dishonest solicitation (and dance all you want, that's what this was) I have no reason to expect them to deal honestly with me in the future, and I'll spend my money elsewhere. Granted, some businesses such as car dealerships make you feel like Diogenes searching Athens for an honest man, but when an organization such as ASQ makes a big deal about the ethical conduct of its members and is supposed to be a guardian of statistical integrity, one has a right to expect it to conduct business accordingly.

If calling out ASQ management for its egregious hypocrisy is "bashing," then I'm proud to be a basher.