Yet another reason not to join the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

[Duke Okes]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

If calling out ASQ management for its egregious hypocrisy is "bashing," then I'm proud to be a basher.

Definitely not bashing when it's the truth (e.g., supported by data rather than an opinion). However, my experience is that management usually ignores the truth if they don't like what they hear. Getting any organization to be congruent (expressed values vs. demonstrated values) is very difficult. Obviously ASQ should set the standard for it, since, as Dr. Kondo expresses, quality is a primary attribute (as is love and a few others), and if the "premier world quality organization" doesn't do it, why the heck should anyone else.

Sort of like the Catholic problem with little boys, Elliott Spritzer and laws, John Edwards and his wife vs. mistress, etc. Really hard to find good role models, whether individual or organizational.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

<snip>Really hard to find good role models, whether individual or organizational.

They're there; really! But these folks and organizations never seek- nor are they in the spotlight.

Stijloor.

 

[Randy]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

Really hard to find good role models, whether individual or organizational.

Too bad because I see them all over the place, in all sectors and strata of society. They may all have weakness, but they seem to rise above them in their own way and not all are Americans.

Look at Desmond Doss, a man of peace http://www.medalofhonor.com/DesmondDoss1.htm

How about Mohandas Gandhi, another man of peace?

Richard Branson, rags to riches

Fred Rogers...nuff said

Colin Powell

Muhammed Ali

Sam Walton

Tim Russert and his dad

Mary Kay Ash

My father-in-law just an kid from rural Arkansas......3 years combat in WW2 and 2 years combat in Korea....2 silver stars, 4 bronze stars, 2 CIB's, 17 battle stars for WW2, survived Normandy in the 4th wave, 3 Purple Hearts, spent 6 months in hospital in '45 from wounds in Germany and refused VA disability benefits for 60 years because others were more deserving, worked hard all his life as a carpenter, farmer, husband and father.......now 100% disabled and going strong at 85 years.

Pretty sad that you don't see role models 'cause we have a couple here as well like Howard Akins in his love of country and family and especially his son; crazy old Wes in his overall business sense. And there are many others.......

 

[JAltmann]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

Kinda I doubt that statement is totally true (my emphasis in bold).

If I was asked to pay for membership in the Cove, I would be more than happy to. This forum provides a lot a great information from all levels within the field of Quality and Business.

The Cove, is a person's dream, in my opinion. To receive information and answers to questions that they have, from all levels in quality and the business world.

I see that you are newly registered (within the last 7 months). Can you honestly say that the Cove has not been beneficial in your search for knowledge and answers?

I am not making my comments based upon being one of the Moderators. I am speaking from my feelings on how valuable the Cove has been in my career, which has expanded almost 25 years in the Quality Field.

The Cove is a great resource, and yes has been very helpful in my quest for answers, as has the ASQ.

Hard to compare Apples and Oranges tho. (Free membership soceity vs. paid membership soceity)

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

For years ASQ has knowingly (I know, because I've informed them more than once, as have others I know of) represented benefits of certification dishonestly by alleging a causal effect of certification on higher pay. They have no data to back up the claim. While it may be true that on average certified people make more money than uncertified people, there's no evidence that certification is the cause, or that certification is likely to result in higher pay. This is a direct violation of their code of ethics, which requires "Being honest and impartial in serving the public, their employers, customers, and clients."

Furthermore, if it's true that the present misrepresentation is due to incompetence, Article 2 of the code has been violated. It says that members must "Perform services only in their areas of competence."

With all due respect Jim, how do you know they have no data to back up the claim?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

With all due respect Jim, how do you know they have no data to back up the claim?

I believe they have data to support the claim that certified people tend to earn more than non-certified people. What they're lacking is anything thing showing causal effect. I no longer have the correspondence, but I was told as much by ASQ some 10-12 years ago.

Always be suspicious when anyone says "B followed A, therefore A caused B." I recall several years ago a study that showed a correlation between eating x amount of red meat or more per week and heart disease. There was indeed a correlation, but the study failed to establish causation, mainly because people who eat less red meat also tend to exercise more, smoke less, and lead healthier lifestyles in general.

 

[Brizilla]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

The Cove is a great resource, and yes has been very helpful in my quest for answers, as has the ASQ.

Hard to compare Apples and Oranges tho. (Free membership soceity vs. paid membership soceity)

On the contrary, I'm a paid member of both. Even without the access to the wealth of downloads and training material I have as a paid member, that aside, I can easily say I've gotten far more out of the Cove than I have out of my several year membership in ASQ and the prices are the same.
There is far more community here than there. The people here want to help and assist in any way possible, It's very easy to bounce ideas off of them day or night. Just like ASQ, you get out of here what you put in. I will continue to pay for The Cove, ASQ? We'll see.

Briz

 

[Howard Lee]

I joined ASQ in 1994 to become a Certified Quality Technician. I had worked in quality in a factory for some time. I had little formal education beyond high school (actually I had a GED). No one beyond the immediate people that I worked with knew that I could do anything. For me, certification was third-party verification that I had good basic knowledge of the science of quality (sort of like meeting a standard). The certification made me stand out at the place where I worked and elsewhere. That was why I joined ASQ.

I went to a few meetings and listened to the speakers. I learned a few things and met other people that worked in quality. I planned further certification but that went bad (I won't go into that again, as my story is already a matter of record here). I was absent from the working world for several years and when I returned there was a line on my resume:

"1995-2001--Spent this time recovering from an automobile accident."

I got a couple of jobs to get by but I couldn't find what I wanted to do. My counselor at SC Vocational Rehabilitation told me specifically, "Mr.Lee, jobs in quality aren't exactly falling out of trees in the South Carolina lowcountry!"

When a job in quality did show up near my home, I played long and hard on my ASQ certification (then 9 years old). It got me in the door to an interview. After I was hired, I was told in no uncertain terms that my resume stood out because of certification. This is why I joined ASQ. I have two more ASQ certifications now and they get attention. I regularly attend meetings becuase it gives me a good excuse to leave the twelve mile circle I live in, once a month. I meet other people that work in quality and learn new things (these are side benefits).

When I submitted "Quality Control and Brain Damage" to Quality Progress for consideration, my purpose was to point out the benefits of ASQ certification. They (ASQ) chose my story because it is a plug for ASQ certification and for a moment I became their "poster boy". I am not ashamed, I have a job because of ASQ certification. That is why I joined ASQ and why I will continue to be a member.

My membership is what I make of it.

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

I believe they have data to support the claim that certified people tend to earn more than non-certified people. What they're lacking is anything thing showing causal effect. I no longer have the correspondence, but I was told as much by ASQ some 10-12 years ago.

Always be suspicious when anyone says "B followed A, therefore A caused B." I recall several years ago a study that showed a correlation between eating x amount of red meat or more per week and heart disease. There was indeed a correlation, but the study failed to establish causation, mainly because people who eat less red meat also tend to exercise more, smoke less, and lead healthier lifestyles in general.

I have no quarrel with your point that people make assumptions about cause and effect. I see the mistakes being made all the time. It makes me nuts, and I do agree ASQ should know better than to fall into such a trap because its members can small a rat in this area better than most fields (IMO).

But 10-12 years ago is awhile back. I do not know whom ASQ has directly asked about this - if they have used focus groups in various industries to get more meaningful data than a mix of survey results.

How complete is our awareness of what ASQ is currently using for their data?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Yet another reason not to join ASQ

I have no quarrel with your point that people make assumptions about cause and effect. I see the mistakes being made all the time. It makes me nuts, and I do agree ASQ should know better than to fall into such a trap because its members can small a rat in this area better than most fields (IMO).

But 10-12 years ago is awhile back. I do not know whom ASQ has directly asked about this - if they have used focus groups in various industries to get more meaningful data than a mix of survey results.

How complete is our awareness of what ASQ is currently using for their data?

It seems to me that any ASQ member who has read this thread would be anxious to query the home office about the data.