Yet another reason not to join the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

[BobA5835 - 2009]

Hello All:

I have read this thread with much interest, and bemusement, and feel I have benefited from the shared thoughts and wisdoms given. I Thank You All. There are certainly some very strong emotions, feelings and opinions freely given on the Cove.

My decision to join the ASQ was prompted by my Audit Manager who has been a member on and off for many years. Dr. P thought it would help me from an educational standpoint and since my Company pays all of my dues and fees, for me, it was a no-brainer.

I found the Cove on my own even before I joined the ASQ. I have been attempting to read both sites and gain as much info as I can. Both have been helpful in this respect.
I am currently an RAB Certified Internal Auditor for ISO 13485:2003.

I am in the Medical Device industry and we are an FDA Regulated concern.

My desire is to keep learning and advancing as far as this old 61 year old brain will go. (Yeah, yeah, a couple of career changes, I didn't just fall off of the apple cart!)

I did download that pdf Report and it looks like marketing hype to me.

Also as a side note, does anyone know if the phrase "chaos point" on Page 3 is really used in some discipline as indicated there? I did an internet search and came up empty. Perhaps it was coined with that article?

Thanks,

BobA5835
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Inexperience is not inability. E. Bercovici & P.A. Fields: The Man from U.N.C.L.E., The Foxes and Hounds Affair, Episode 33, Season 2, 1965-66.

 

[4Compliance]

I just received an e-mail message from ASQ, and they want me to join. As an incentive they dangled this little gem in front of me:
The asterisk leads to a footnote that says, "*2008, The William E. Smith Institute for Association Research." So a-Googling I went, and found the website of the institute, and therein a press release (PDF) trumpeting the report referred to in the ASQ solicitation. In part, that press release says,
(My emphasis)

So--- ASQ is clearly suggesting that membership in associations leads to happiness, more money and increased job satisfaction, while the information upon which the contention is based clearly says the exact opposite.

Sounds like a good reason not to join this particular association.

I'm only a member and hold multiple certifications because that's what employer's that don't have expertise in their fields think is necessary. Personally, they were easy tests and am embarrassed by the fact that I got the certifications, but they sure are what employers are looking for.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Yet another reason not to join (or renew) the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

From what I heard, ASQ lost another 6,000 members in 2008. I am seriously considering dropping my ASQ membership next year, after another fiasco.

In brief: As a member of the Aviation, Space & Defense division of ASQ, I received the following invite e-mail, back in July:

Call for Articles

Quality Progress
The November issue of Quality Progress will focus on the aviation, space, and defense industries. We are looking for authors to share their knowledge and viewpoints with the rest of our quality compatriots. Articles need to be submitted by July 31, 2009 to XXXXX XXXXX at XXXXXX.XXXXX@goodrich.com

to what I positively responded and offered an article on the AS/EN9110 standard. 45 days later I checked with ASQ/Quality Progress on the status of my submission and they had never received it from the gentleman (chair of the ASD division) whom was supposed to collect the submitted articles and forward them to the editor of QP.

I must admit that the editor of QP and her staff were very effective and responsive. However, to this date, the chair of the ASD Division has not responded to my request, nor ASQ QP editor's request for an explanation of why my article had not been forwarded for consideration. The article was published elsewhere. But the experience left me with another bad taste, dealing with a branch of ASQ.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: Yet another reason not to join (or renew) the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

From what I heard, ASQ lost another 6,000 members in 2008. I am seriously considering dropping my ASQ membership next year, after another fiasco.

In brief: As a member of the Aviation, Space & Defense division of ASQ, I received the following invite e-mail, back in July:
to what I positively responded and offered an article on the AS/EN9110 standard. 45 days later I checked with ASQ/Quality Progress on the status of my submission and they had never received it from the gentleman (chair of the ASD division) whom was supposed to collect the submitted articles and forward them to the editor of QP.

I must admit that the editor of QP and her staff were very effective and responsive. However, to this date, the chair of the ASD Division has not responded to my request, nor ASQ QP editor's request for an explanation of why my article had not been forwarded for consideration. The article was published elsewhere. But the experience left me with another bad taste, dealing with a branch of ASQ.

Few could accuse me of "spinning" negative info about ASQ into "happy talk." For years, I have tried to rally rank and file members to rise up and wrest control from the "me first" top paid staff of ASQ. I am particularly incensed we pay Borawski over $400,000 year in salary and perquisites to be the
Executive Director.

I have met with nothing but wave after wave of apathy from rank and file members who continue to rubber stamp changes to the by-laws which make it more and more impossible to launch and sustain a grass roots campaign to install elective officers to the Board who will fire Borawski and hire someone better able to run an Association which will attract and maintain members instead of driving them away.

The problem is that most elected or appointed heads of the divisions and the regions are there merely to pad their resumes or to launch their own consultancies bolstered by their "credentials" as ASQ elected officers. We have had five successive elected ASQ Presidents assure us of positive changes and yet the numbers continue to dwindle, but Borawski is still drawing down big bucks.

Some of you may have been familiar with my little "Gang of Four" which tried for years to get improvements in the ASQ Forums, only to be jollied along by a succession of mid-level ASQ staffers who were more concerned with maintaining a place in the bureaucracy than in making any improvement for the members.

Alas, the bureaucracy is ahead on points and Borawski is still Executive Director.

Anyone like to join the Revolution or do you prefer to give in and vote with your feet by walking away, leaving nothing for the ensuing generations except Mikel Harry's legions?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Yet another reason not to join (or renew) the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

Anyone like to join the Revolution or do you prefer to give in and vote with your feet by walking away, leaving nothing for the ensuing generations except Mikel Harry's legions?

Obviously (and not surprisingly) your tack hasn't worked, nor is there any reason to believe it ever will. If enough people leave, something will change. WRT Mikel Harry, don't forget that ASQ has jumped enthusiastically on the SS bandwagon, and you support that with your dues.

 

[Geoff Withnell]

Re: Yet another reason not to join (or renew) the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

Some of you may have been familiar with my little "Gang of Four" which tried for years to get improvements in the ASQ Forums, only to be jollied along by a succession of mid-level ASQ staffers who were more concerned with maintaining a place in the bureaucracy than in making any improvement for the members.


Anyone like to join the Revolution or do you prefer to give in and vote with your feet by walking away, leaving nothing for the ensuing generations except Mikel Harry's legions?

Wes,
Speaking as one of the moderators for the ASQ Forums, we like toi think we are making some headway. We have a lot more of the discussion groups are moderated, and we get much better response than in the past when we need spam removed. Admiitedly, our efforts to get upgraded software have not yet born fruit. As far a "Mikel Harry's legions" the "Ask a Quality Professional" board is moderated by Steve Prevette, who is about as far from being a follower of Mikel Harry as one can get and still know what ss stands for.


Geoff Withnell

 

[Steve Prevette]

Well, since my name got invoked, I guess I will comment.

Having gone to the trouble to fly to Milwaukee in the dead of winter last winter to talk about the discussion boards, not much has visibly changed with the Boards. Except even more Boards have been added to the mess.

Now, I will give credit to the ASQ staffers involved in the Boards that they have become more responsive to issues like SPAM. But, fundamentally, the Boards remain the same, and anyone that wants to add a new Board may do so.

I do continue to moderate two boards (though I am still listed as a moderator of the Member Leader Board long after resigning from the role), but have really dropped my participation on the ASQ Boards.

Unfortunately, I also find my participation dropping off a bit here. The issue is the job - my methods (OK, actually Dr. Shewhart's and Deming's) methods have been strongly accepted at the Savannah River Site. In fact, our CEO just signed off a letter to our customer, the US Department of Energy, that we will be using "formal Statistical Process Control" to evaluate our metrics. I am now the team lead for three other statisticians, and we are considerably ramping up production of analyses.

 

[Marc]

A bit off topic, but... Steve, we all appreciate the time you have spent here helping folks over the years. My personal thanks for helping out here when you can.

 

[gpainter]

Too much politicing at ASQ? There has been a decrease in quality at ASQ in the past 3-7 years, as it seems to me.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Too much politicing at ASQ? There has been a decrease in quality at ASQ in the past 3-7 years, as it seems to me.

Too much? or Not enough politicking? Seems to me we need to "throw the rascals out!" and start with a fresh slate.