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The New Elsmar Cove Forums
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 The New Elsmar Cove Forums
 QS-9000
 MSA
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| Author | Topic: MSA |
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gcampbel unregistered |
posted 10 September 1998 04:10 PM
 
HOW DO YOU PERFORM A COMPLETE MSA WHEN YOUR TEST METHOD IS A DESTRUCTIVE TEST? IP: Logged |
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Marc Smith Cheech Wizard Posts: 4119 |
posted 10 September 1998 07:10 PM
 
Well, for complete MSA info we would need more data. There's 1 'general' method akin to an R&R in intention (consideration of repeatability and reproducability) described near the end of the MSA presentation (if I remember correctly) in the pdf_files directory here. Anyone want to go into details? IP: Logged |
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gcampbel unregistered |
posted 14 September 1998 09:35 AM
The test I am referring to is bond pull, both destructive and non destructive. We use ultrasonic bonders with aluminum wire and periodically we do a non destructive pull test and then on separate units, a destructive bond pull. I do not know how to measure repeatability or linearity in these two cases. IP: Logged |
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barb butrym Forum Contributor Posts: 637 |
posted 15 September 1998 07:04 AM
Use a test coupon, its the only way you can do it as a continuous process, short of dedicated bonders for product. Have been doing this for years for mil standard defense/space programs, as well as AS/QS and has been acceptable. I hear the frustration..been there, done that. that process does NOT fit the mold for SPC stuff at all. IP: Logged |
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Thanoo unregistered |
posted 25 January 2000 02:52 AM
How can I do in case I cannot find/use dummy coupon? Is it possible to use within Lot material to explain Repeatability and between Lot to explain Reproducibility? What about your idea? Thanks for your idea.
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Al Lurker (<10 Posts) Posts: 5 |
posted 25 January 2000 07:27 AM
Destructive measurement system analysis can be accomplished via SPC. You should referene "Evaluating the Measurement Process When Testing is Destructive" by Donald J. Wheeler and "EMP-Evaluating the Measurement Process", by Donald J. Wheeler and Richard W. Lyday. Both publications can be obtained from SPC Press, Inc. 615-584-5005 IP: Logged |
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Spaceman Spiff Forum Contributor Posts: 64 |
posted 25 January 2000 08:49 AM
The best method I found for MSA on destructive testing is through using the ISOPlot method developed by Dr. Dorian Shainin (see www.shainin.com for information). Basically, I would take 2 consecutive samples as a group and collect a total of 30 groups. Next I would use sample 1 of each group as Trial 1 and sample 2 of each group as Trial 2. Then I would plot Trial 1 versus Trial 2 and determine the discremination ratio. It is very similar to correlation, but the method of calculating discrimination ratio is the key to qualify the measurement system. There is a software to do this from Shainin (www.shainin.com/RedXTracker/). Check it out! IP: Logged |
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dewie Forum Contributor Posts: 44 |
posted 26 January 2000 11:43 PM
MSA reference manual give some examples of approaches to MSA including single specimen. Let's see in Appendix D pp.107 and let's comment on that. IP: Logged |
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