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Author Topic:   MSA
gcampbel
unregistered
posted 10 September 1998 04:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HOW DO YOU PERFORM A COMPLETE MSA WHEN YOUR TEST METHOD IS A DESTRUCTIVE TEST?

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Marc Smith
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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 10 September 1998 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, for complete MSA info we would need more data.

There's 1 'general' method akin to an R&R in intention (consideration of repeatability and reproducability) described near the end of the MSA presentation (if I remember correctly) in the pdf_files directory here.

Anyone want to go into details?

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gcampbel
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posted 14 September 1998 09:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The test I am referring to is bond pull, both destructive and non destructive. We use ultrasonic bonders with aluminum wire and periodically we do a non destructive pull test and then on separate units, a destructive bond pull. I do not know how to measure repeatability or linearity in these two cases.

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barb butrym
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posted 15 September 1998 07:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Use a test coupon, its the only way you can do it as a continuous process, short of dedicated bonders for product. Have been doing this for years for mil standard defense/space programs, as well as AS/QS and has been acceptable. I hear the frustration..been there, done that. that process does NOT fit the mold for SPC stuff at all.

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Thanoo
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posted 25 January 2000 02:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How can I do in case I cannot find/use dummy coupon? Is it possible to use within Lot material to explain Repeatability and between Lot to explain Reproducibility?
What about your idea? Thanks for your idea.

quote:
Originally posted by barb butrym:
Use a test coupon, its the only way you can do it as a continuous process, short of dedicated bonders for product. Have been doing this for years for mil standard defense/space programs, as well as AS/QS and has been acceptable. I hear the frustration..been there, done that. that process does NOT fit the mold for SPC stuff at all.

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Al
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 5
From:Evansville,IN,USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 25 January 2000 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al   Click Here to Email Al     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Destructive measurement system analysis can be accomplished via SPC. You should referene "Evaluating the Measurement Process When Testing is Destructive" by Donald J. Wheeler and "EMP-Evaluating the Measurement Process", by Donald J. Wheeler and Richard W. Lyday. Both publications can be obtained from SPC Press, Inc. 615-584-5005

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Spaceman Spiff
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From:FL
Registered: Mar 99

posted 25 January 2000 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spaceman Spiff   Click Here to Email Spaceman Spiff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The best method I found for MSA on destructive testing is through using the ISOPlot method developed by Dr. Dorian Shainin (see www.shainin.com for information).

Basically, I would take 2 consecutive samples as a group and collect a total of 30 groups. Next I would use sample 1 of each group as Trial 1 and sample 2 of each group as Trial 2. Then I would plot Trial 1 versus Trial 2 and determine the discremination ratio. It is very similar to correlation, but the method of calculating discrimination ratio is the key to qualify the measurement system. There is a software to do this from Shainin (www.shainin.com/RedXTracker/).

Check it out!

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dewie
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Posts: 44
From:BKK
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 26 January 2000 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dewie   Click Here to Email dewie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MSA reference manual give some examples of approaches to MSA including single specimen. Let's see in Appendix D pp.107 and let's comment on that.

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